rodbigelow Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 So I got 4 really small juvenile Marmorkrebs last week, they seem to be doing fine and have molted. Quite a bit of difference at this stage between sizes before and after molts. Anyway,I was reading one person's website that said there was a high mortality rate between the final stages being juveniles into adulthood, and that as adult's the breeding seemed to happen in roughly 35% of the population. I was wondering if the people here who have bred these are finding the same problems in both areas, or if someone has found anythng to improve either situation. MableBile and JosephKex 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Wish someone would tell my marbles that. LOL Not had any problems with mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHe Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 No, it's not in my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodbigelow Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Interesting. Well, this was an older entry on a website from a laboratory. When I was reading it I was kinda wondering if some of their problem was that they might be keeping them in too sterile and too stressful or not natural enough conditions. Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodbigelow Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 well, I can't say how old they were when I got them, but the largest of the 4 was not even the width across my pinkie nail. Now a week later it is more then twice as long as the width of my pinkie nail. Hopefully that is a good sign they are healthy and on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 They grow really fast, which can be a blessing for aquaponics/feeders, or a curse if having as a pet. rodbigelow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodbigelow Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 yeah, I am primarily looking for aquaponic/feeder/any other type of application I can figure out for them. They are pretty cool little test subjects. It's now 2 weeks since I got the 4. I've had one fatality, possibly a bad molt, but don't know for certain. The rest are doing very well and the largest is now 4x the width of my pinkie fingernail (terribly scientific measurement there, I know), so at this age they are still doubling in size every week. It is also interesting that the largest one has now started recognizing feeding time, the 2 remaining smaller ones have not. Will be interesting to learn if this is a developemental thing or not. Wygglz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wygglz Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Cool observation, Rod. Do keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodbigelow Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 They are living things Sir & not test subjects so please respect the geometry of nature. Are you trying some sort of Stanley Milgram crayfish experiment? Please forgive me, I'm so confused by your long winded posts. Forgive my wording if it offends, however it is possible for something to be a living thing and also a test subject, and I do respect the geometry(?) of nature. Right at this moment I am not doing anything other then observing anything I can about them, so I can better understand what and who I am dealing with. At this stage it is horribly inaccurate as I bought these at a very young age but they are all so varied in size I have to assume they are from different hatchings and do not have the data as to when each was born. Totally unfamiliar with Stanley Milgram or his experiments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Something interesting about crays is that the clutch can grow at different rates. Some may even look 2x as big as a sibling at any given point in time. rodbigelow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodbigelow Posted September 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Something interesting about crays is that the clutch can grow at different rates. Some may even look 2x as big as a sibling at any given point in time. Now that is interesting, and good to know. I was assuming since they are clones growth rate would be about the same in any given clutch. Makes me wonder what the inluence is there and if there might not be a way to.......I don't even know what you'd call it since you can't breed two together.......to enhance the growth rate in a lineage for possibly bigger crays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 People often have the misconception that self cloning means the individuals look exactly alike to P1, when in reality coloration, pattern and growth may all be different. Parthenogenesis is not the same as artificial cloning, and thus people get confused. In theory you could select the largest from each clutch in the line to enhance the bell curve, but in actuality I don't know. Marms are still a bit of a mystery. The nice thing is you should know pretty fast since they berry up usually by 2". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodbigelow Posted September 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 People often have the misconception that self cloning means the individuals look exactly alike to P1, when in reality coloration, pattern and growth may all be different. Parthenogenesis is not the same as artificial cloning, and thus people get confused. In theory you could select the largest from each clutch in the line to enhance the bell curve, but in actuality I don't know. Marms are still a bit of a mystery. The nice thing is you should know pretty fast since they berry up usually by 2". I knew the patterning and coloration could be different, but just didn't think growth rate would be effected that much. Yeah, our little gals should soon offically be declared a new species, and one that's only been around for such a short period of time too! That's one of the things that facinates me so much about them, there are tons of questions that haven't even been asked yet but will eventually need to be answered about our "virgin crayfish" and how this strategy plays out for species survival. BTW-WTH? why doesn't this forum provide spell check as an option before posting? Mildly dyslexic and really hate when I post mis spellings and whatnot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 I tjink the spell check red lines have more to do with your browser and how it is set. rodbigelow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodbigelow Posted September 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 I tjink the spell check red lines have more to do with your browser and how it is set. Maybe, I don't get any red lines at all here. The second largest has now started recognizing feeding time, and it is roughly the same size as the largest when it did the same. The smallest one is quite a bit smaller, and probably won't hit that size until maybe mid to end of this coming week. It will be interesting to see what happens, and this isn't near large enough a group being studied to offically say so, but it does look like a developemental thing. Maybe the brain has to get "just big enough" to start handeling that information. Looking at my photos I also realized they all have exactly the same "at rest" pose. both front claws facing downward at maybe a 30deg angle, with one slightly raised and offset compared to the other. Must have come about as an ideal hunting pose. I was getting confused because the pictures all looked so much the same even when I knew it was different ones in each photo..... Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Or they could be mimicking each other. My rabbits routinely copy each other's resting positions. Soothing Shrimp and rodbigelow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wygglz Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Fascinating thread. Please do continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodbigelow Posted September 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 Or they could be mimicking each other. My rabbits routinely copy each other's resting positions. That is a possibility. Only way to find out would be to separate out a bunch of young ones at hatching and keep them apart and see what poses they adopt. Once I get better set up I'll try that. It's near the end of week 3 since I got them and growth rate on the largest two seems to have slowed down, with only about 1/2 the former size being put on. Shells are getting more color,and or less transparent which is helping with color. The smallest just today began recognizing feeding time, so it would appear to warrent looking into when I'm set up a bit better, have larger populations to look at and ways to get accurate measurements. What are other people feeding theirs? I'm using veggie pellets, color flakes and guppy bites right now and they are in a planted tank by themselves. So far the only vegetation they seem to be eating is dead and dying leaves. Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 I feed mine whatever foods I have on hand, including rabbit food pellets and plant trimmings, but primarily Hikari crab cuisine. They seem to be determinately omnivorous and not at all picky. I suspect that mine are hunting snails, but can't prove it. I don't usually get to see mine face-on, always a lateral view when I can get a glimpse. I guess I oriented their hiding tubes the wrong way in the tank. So I have no idea if mine display the same resting pose. It would be neat to compare, though. Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodbigelow Posted September 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 Grrr....had another fatality today so I'm down to two. It was such a stupid and avoidable fatality too. I hadn't realized it but my largest had just shed and I did a 20% water change. While siphoning I had to look away for a moment and the siphon went astray and grabbed up the freshly molted one and banged it around inside the tubing before I realized what had happened. Going to come up with a better solution for doing water changes immediatly. Was planing on it anyway so when I have a bunch of young they don't get swept up, but this makes a good arguement to change systems now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodbigelow Posted September 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 I feed mine whatever foods I have on hand, including rabbit food pellets and plant trimmings, but primarily Hikari crab cuisine. They seem to be determinately omnivorous and not at all picky. I suspect that mine are hunting snails, but can't prove it. I don't usually get to see mine face-on, always a lateral view when I can get a glimpse. I guess I oriented their hiding tubes the wrong way in the tank. So I have no idea if mine display the same resting pose. It would be neat to compare, though. I'll try to get a decent picture. I'm fairly new to Macro photography and don't have anything close to an optimal set-up, but occasionally I get a decent shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Put one of Han's SS filters over the end of the syphon tube like I do, or use panty hose over the end. That will stop anything from being sucked up. ;-) rodbigelow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morty Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 On 9/3/2015 at 6:14 AM, rodbigelow said: Now that is interesting, and good to know. I was assuming since they are clones growth rate would be about the same in any given clutch. Makes me wonder what the inluence is there and if there might not be a way to.......I don't even know what you'd call it since you can't breed two together.......to enhance the growth rate in a lineage for possibly bigger crays? I'm a little behind on this post but I have some interesting findings. I have a 125G planted tank and I somehow ended up getting a Marm in it, she got huge, went into hiding, I saw her berried at one point and then several weeks later I found 1 inch offspring everywhere. A couple weeks later, 2 inches. Soon after I clean my filter, an Eheim 1500XL and I find 16 baby Marms, all under .5 of an inch. They had been living in there since shortly after birth, since the filter intake has a quite restrictive guard on it, and all were less than 1/4 of their siblings size. It can only be deduced that it was from lack of protein in their diet. They had been living only on filter detritus and not any pellet food with protein. Just my accidental observations... Soothing Shrimp and rodbigelow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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