Difference between red bolt and golden bee shrimp

[fernselvis]

Hi could someone help me figure out the difference between a red bolt and golden bee. Off spring is from black pinto x back pinto and King Kong, blue panda and red panda.

 

Thank you.

 

 

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[fernselvis]

Anyone can help with this


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[Cleeon]

I just back to hobby and red bolt is new for me, maybe i'm missing lots of info about shrimp hobby..hmmm

[Royboy808]

Pics would help.

[jessaweeshrimp]

Red bolt has a redish head with the white becoming more visible towards the tail.

Golden Bees are off white with a golden tone flesh under the off white. Sometimes the GB can have a splash of blue or black on the face but barely noticeable 

[schleppey]

I'm pretty sure they are two different shrimp that happen to look alike. I have some redbolts right next to me and they have more of a peach hue to them I would say. There are maybe one or two shrimp in my colony of 17 low-med grade red bolts that could be mistaken at a quick glance. With a little inspection I think you would be able to notice some colors in any of my redbolts. Golden bees can come yellowish-gold all the way to crystal white. Red bolts are more whiteish-peach color and only turn more red the higher grade. That is my understanding of it right now.

[Jen]

I was under the impression that they are the same shrimp with different names. When I've purchased golden bees online they always arrive a cream color. After a few days and when the water parameters are optimal, they start to turn an orange hue. I've noticed the same thing happens with my blue bolts; they lose their blue coloring when stressed like when they get shipped in the mail, or transferring from the LFS to home but regain their color a few hours after they've been acclimated to my tank and continue to darken over a few days. 

 

One thing I have noticed with both my both blue and golden bee is that when they start losing their color, even if they've been in my tank a while, is that they die.

 

In conclusion, IMO golden bees are one and the same as red bolts. But golden bees/red bolts lose their orange tinge when stressed or water parameters are not great.

[Cleeon]

following and i need a picture of red bolt, believe it or not, i just read the name of red bolt but do not ever see it yet, even the photo

[jessaweeshrimp]

The Red Bolt in question is most likely your Red Panda crossing with another shrimp. Red bolts are not just a different color of Golden Bees but Golden Bees and or Snow White Bees definitely play a role in their genetics. GB and SW are the same shrimp selectively bred for more pure white while the GB has a peachy color under the shell.

These traits are selected and bred out over time. The Red Bolts and Blue Bolts have them in their genes but are selectively bred and chosen and crossed with more Red or Blue varieties of Caradina.

[DETAquarium]

Red Bolts are offspring of Taiwan Bees, Golden/Snow White are offspring of CRS/CBS.

 

For example my Red Bolts are strictly offspring from my Wine Red/Ruby Red Taiwan Bee tank. You will receive various color intensities from orange to red.

[jessaweeshrimp]

3 hours ago, DETAquarium said:

Red Bolts are offspring of Taiwan Bees, Golden/Snow White are offspring of CRS/CBS.

 

For example my Red Bolts are strictly offspring from my Wine Red/Ruby Red Taiwan Bee tank. You will receive various color intensities from orange to red.

 

I know that is correct and you are very knowledgeable regarding shrimp when compared to myself and most others actually but when CRS amd CBS are offspring from Taiwan Bees it makes it hard to get full clarity.

Especially when my Golden Bees and Snow Whites yields the occasional CRS and CBS (it's the mysterious Mischling factor I know) it makes it harder to explain in cut and dry short n sweet terms.

[DETAquarium]

13 hours ago, jessaweeshrimp said:

 

I know that is correct and you are very knowledgeable regarding shrimp when compared to myself and most others actually but when CRS amd CBS are offspring from Taiwan Bees it makes it hard to get full clarity.

Especially when my Golden Bees and Snow Whites yields the occasional CRS and CBS (it's the mysterious Mischling factor I know) it makes it harder to explain in cut and dry short n sweet terms.

 

I have never had CRS/CBS offspring from Taiwan Bees. Maybe the fact that I have never mixed TBs with anything other than Taiwan Bees unless for a specific project. Are your TBs from Mischlings? Have you crossed your TBs with anything else?  This is the ongoing problem with continuous crosses between shrimp, individuals get lost in what the original crosses and selective breeding actually came from.

 

Your Golden and Snow White yield CRS/CBS because individuals in the past crossed Golden/Snow White to help increase the white opacity of the CRS/CBS. From that point forward the genetic makeup of these shrimp would never be the same. That is why people prefer PRL/PBL, because of the fact that they do not yield any Golden/Snow White.

[jessaweeshrimp]

Yes my first Bee shrimp I ordered were GB but I noticed that two had crowns, one red and one black. Shortly after I learned what they were, Mischlings. But even my GB's have red speckles or black and even blue speckles on the heads. And I even got a low grade BB thrown. 

I know that way back CBS and CRS came from TB and were selectively bred until all traces were gone of their ancestors genes. I also got some PRL recently but it's not as exciting to watch the babies grow, just looking for patterns 😁

[DETAquarium]

18 minutes ago, jessaweeshrimp said:

Yes my first Bee shrimp I ordered were GB but I noticed that two had crowns, one red and one black. Shortly after I learned what they were, Mischlings. But even my GB's have red speckles or black and even blue speckles on the heads. And I even got a low grade BB thrown. 

I know that way back CBS and CRS came from TB and were selectively bred until all traces were gone of their ancestors genes. I also got some PRL recently but it's not as exciting to watch the babies grow, just looking for patterns 😁

 

You are close, but Taiwan Bees came from CRS/CBS. Taiwan Bees were selectively bred for their traits.

[jessaweeshrimp]

I know there are lots of charts that show sometimes different lines bit I thought that one of the original shrimp keepers of Asian decent had TB and they were clearish and dark brown. Then he saw a reddish one thrown and selectively bred the Red from them? 

I don't remember the gentlemans name but I can go find it and the populat chart that I am using as a reference and post it here later 😊

[DETAquarium]

1 minute ago, jessaweeshrimp said:

I know there are lots of charts that show sometimes different lines bit I thought that one of the original shrimp keepers of Asian decent had TB and they were clearish and dark brown. Then he saw a reddish one thrown and selectively bred the Red from them? 

I don't remember the gentlemans name but I can go find it and the populat chart that I am using as a reference and post it here later 😊

 

Maybe this chart will help you along. 

[jessaweeshrimp]

That was the chart I was referring to actually so maybe I misinterpreted what it is saying?

This looks like it saying that although they are all cantonensis that CBS was further developed selectively and all other Bee flavors are derived from CBS except for the Whiter varieties which came from the Orange Bee?

[aotf]

3 hours ago, jessaweeshrimp said:

That was the chart I was referring to actually so maybe I misinterpreted what it is saying?

This looks like it saying that although they are all cantonensis that CBS was further developed selectively and all other Bee flavors are derived from CBS except for the Whiter varieties which came from the Orange Bee?

I'm not quite sure how you're reading that chart but it shows that from wild Crystal Blacks, we got early CRS/CBS, from which we then got TBs. Yes, CBS and CRS were subsequently developed selectively over many generations to get specific crystal patterning, but TBs and crystals are different lines at that point. Selectively breeding crystals doesn't really affect TBs (unless you start crossing them back together and you get some expensive mischlings, which the chart shows).

I think the confusion might come from the fact that you referred to wild crystals as TBs, while I think DETA is saying that TBs are a specific subset of differently colored and patterned shrimp derived early on from an existing CRS/CBS line (which is in line with what the graph is illustrating).

Nothing on the chart suggest that the whiter varieties of crystals (Snow white, Golden Bee, or even Crystal White) come from wild Orange Bee. They're just... there. Doesn't seem like they've been selectively bred much, according to the chart.

Hope I didn't make things worse :/

[jessaweeshrimp]

No not worse and thanks. I was incorrectly  following the arrow from Crystal Black thinking it was Orange Bee. I choked, twice which is now an epic fail logged in the annals of the WWW forever 😢 😪

So all of the TB did in fact derive from the CBS and CRS genetic line then👍, thanks aotf and DETAquarium for your time and patience 😁

[DETAquarium]

15 hours ago, jessaweeshrimp said:

No not worse and thanks. I was incorrectly  following the arrow from Crystal Black thinking it was Orange Bee. I choked, twice which is now an epic fail logged in the annals of the WWW forever 😢 😪

So all of the TB did in fact derive from the CBS and CRS genetic line then👍, thanks aotf and DETAquarium for your time and patience 😁

 

We have all been in your shoes, you have to start learning somewhere and no one will fault you for that. You are at least taking the first step in research which is the key to success along with patience in our hobby. Continue to ask questions, because there are many people that can benefit that may not want to speak up. Helps me learn as well, as with shrimp it is ever changing and always evolving.

[chappy6107]

4 hours ago, DETAquarium said:

 

We have all been in your shoes, you have to start learning somewhere and no one will fault you for that. You are at least taking the first step in research which is the key to success along with patience in our hobby. Continue to ask questions, because there are many people that can benefit that may not want to speak up. Helps me learn as well, as with shrimp it is ever changing and always evolving.

 

Yes keep asking questions, it helped me learn something new.