Why did my Blue velvet shrimp pass away?

[bobthesushiguy]

I currently have a ten gallon tank with a lot of moss and a sponge filter.

 

Its been running over a month.

 

ph is 8.0

ammonia is at .25ppm

nitrite is at 0ppm

nitrate is at 5.0ppm

 

 

All my juvenile shrimps are doing so well. 

She was eating spinach this morning and I saw her at the moment in a corner.

 

She was sitting straight up, but there was absolutely no movement. 

I noticed another shrimp bump into her and she didint move, so I realized she died.

 

She had a saddle, no discoloration, and died while just standing straight up in a corner?

 

How is this possible? 

 

She has eaten the spinach a lot before, and it is triple washed spinach (organic) that I froze. 

 

Temperature is at 75 F.

 

Is the ph too high? I have no idea. It doesnt seem to be from molting, infection/bacteria/fungus, or damage...

 

I dont have any other things living in the tank except other juvi shrimps....

 

 

[Lyana]

I would say the ammonia, if it's really at .25pm and being the tank isn't that old it's very possible. 

Shrimps don't do good with any ammonia or nitrite.

[bobthesushiguy]

Ty. I will do my best to keep ammonia at 0. Although, I am a bit sad that the most likely reason would end up being ammonia.

[bienengarnele12]

I think the PH is also too high even for neocaridina shrimp.

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[bobthesushiguy]

I think so. Maybe a  ph and ammonia combined has caused things to turn out this way. Im planning on buying seachem ph neutralizer thingy. T_T

[NotKelly]

On 4/25/2017 at 5:20 AM, bobthesushiguy said:

I think so. Maybe a  ph and ammonia combined has caused things to turn out this way. Im planning on buying seachem ph neutralizer thingy. T_T

gotta be careful with that too because it adds a lot of tds into the water

[bobthesushiguy]

OH!! I see. Thank you for letting me know. Would it be okay to ask for any recommendations? I am aware of the different ways of lowering ph, I recently purchased a lot of almond leaves. 

 

Do you think almond leaves will suffice? 

Thank you

[bienengarnele12]

Almond leaves won't help that much. The best way of getting a low ph is using RO water an remineralize it.

[TheGlassBox]

I think it was the ammonia.  The ammonia should always be at zero.  Did you cycle the tank before you put the shrimp in?  If so, how long did you cycle it and was the pH at zero when you put the shrimp in?

 

Don't bother with any commercial product that claims to raise or lower the pH.  It won't work.

 

I don't know what the KH (carbonate hardness) of your water is, but KH acts as a natural buffer for water.  If you use a product like pH down or similar, it will lower your pH to your desired goal, and you'll be really happy...  Until you test the pH the next day.  Then you'll find that it has rebounded right back up to 8.  It's the natural buffers (KH) in the water doing that.  You can add the pH down every day and the pH will simply rebound the next.  It would be a pain to have to add it every day, and it's bad for any livestock in the tank to have the pH constantly yoyoing up and down.  Those kinds of things don't work.

 

You can try natural products like indian almond leaves and peat pillows, but they don't work overnight.  They work gradually to lower the pH and their ability to do so will still  depend on the KH of your water.  If your KH is high, they won't work.  Once again, the KH of your water will resist any change in pH.  API makes a simple test to determine the KH of your water.  The higher it is, the more it will resist pH changes to your water.

 

That's why a lot of shrimp keepers use RO/DI.  It has a zero KH.  They can then reconstitute it to the desired GH/KH that they want with products like Salty Shrimp and others.  (GH = Genreal hardness).  ...Like bienengarnele12 said.  Also, a substrate made for shrimp will help keep the pH low.  A combination of the 2 is the best.

 

I'd do a 50% water change and put some Prime in the water to neutralize the ammonia.   And maybe pick up a small bottle of Tetra Safe Start.   With only shrimp in the tank, it should cycle it within a day or two  and create a healthier environment for them.  If you want them to breed faster, shrimp substrate and reconstituted RO/DI is the way to go.

 

Neos can live and breed at a pH of 8.  I've done it with my BMs.  But they didn't breed as prolifically as they did in my other tank with

 a lower pH.  It's healthier for them.  I eventually swapped out the substrate in that tank.

 

You can always cycle some shrimp substrate in a separate bucket, and swap out the tank substrate when it's ready.

 

Blue Velvets are so pretty against a dark substrate!  It really makes their color pop!

 

Hope this helps...

[bobthesushiguy]

oh wow. So much information. 

 

Ok, I will not depend on chemical commercial products. OH, I used tetra safe start!!! I had that with me. 

 

omg I need to do so much research about substrates. It was the one thing I did not consider. I will definitely do that. I think that will be such a great help. Also, the idea of cycling shrimp substrate in a separate box is sucha good idea!!! 

my goodness. thank you so much T_T

[NotKelly]

whats the food you feed them? most commercial algae wafers and bottom feeder pellets have copper sulfate in them as an ingredient and can kill off shrimps. 

[bobthesushiguy]

I feed them spinach and green peas!

 

The spinach are organic and have been tripled washed, then blanched!

The green peas, im not too sure. They are in the freezer at the market, but I blanch them for a bit to make sure its okay.

 

Those are all I feed them D:'' 

 

[OMG Aquatics]

If you use Prime, please wait at least 48 hours before dosing Tetra SafeStart. The bacteria in that bottle requires ammonia and prime will convert ammonia to ammonium which TSS cannot use.

[TheGlassBox]

15 hours ago, NotKelly said:

whats the food you feed them? most commercial algae wafers and bottom feeder pellets have copper sulfate in them as an ingredient and can kill off shrimps. 

  Good point!

 

Omega One Veggie Rounds are copper free, and practically every pet store carries that.

 

And if you do a 50% water change, you might not need the prime.  It should dilute the NH3 down enough and the TSS will kick in.

[bobthesushiguy]

ohhhh MY GOODNESSS. I accidentally used my tetra safe start after prime. 

I had the thought of feeding them the pellets, but I guess not and I never did. phew*

 

I guess I will keep my eyes peeld for veggie rounds too! 

wow thank you all for so much information and constant advice!

 

I learn so much through forums, but not everything is specifically geared towards my own problem. 

 

Thank you all!

[TheGlassBox]

Don't worry.  It'll be alright.  The Prime won't interfere with the cycle.  And the bacteria in the TSS will be okay.  Prime just converts the NH3 (ammonia) into NH4 (ammonium) and the bacteria in it can use both.  And the prime will dissipate in 24 hours anyway.  The bacteria won't starve.  And if there's any ammonia present, the shrimp are better off with it than without it.  Did you do the 50% water change first?  If you did, that should have diluted the NH3 down enough so the bacteria can have a chance to catch up.  And if you're  using city water you should add Prime (or another dechlorinator) to get rid of the chlorine and chloramines in your water anyway...

 

Here's a reference from Seachem tech support.  They talk about using it with Stability, but that's their equivalent product to TSS.  :  http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/forum/general-discussion/1178-question-about-prime

 

2nd post down  " Prime will not interfere with the cycling process of your tank. You can safely use Prime while you are cycling without issue. Prime will detoxify ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate; however, the beneficial bacteria (your biofilter) in your tank will still be able to utilize those components.".

 

Just test the ammonia daily to make sure it doesn't creep back up. And if does, add a little more prime, but don't overdose it.

 

And be careful about overfeeding while the bacteria is trying to catch up.  The shrimp can go a day or two without feeding.  They'll be okay.  There will be less food that can breakdown in the water and create yet more ammonia...

 

It'll be okay.

 

[bobthesushiguy]

ohhh xD ok ok. I will continue my testing and make sure ammonia doesnt creeep back up!!!

I feed my shrimpies once every 3 days.  thank you!!! phew i feel better

 

[wego21]

I would be careful with the ammonia. Ammonia should be 0 all the time in a well established tank, the bacteria colony should take care of it quite fast. The best thing is to keep Ammonia, nitrates and nitrites at 0 or nitrates as low as possible. My nitrates were about max 5 and in order to get them to 0, I purchased a 100 ml bag of Seachem Purigen (40L tank). I put it into the canister filter and next day after testing everything was at 0. The shrimps were OK also before and were breeding normally, but for the peace of mind I put the Purigen bag into the filter :). Before that I made some research on the purigen on youtube and the guys there were happy with the results so I gave it a go and now I have it in both of my shrimp tanks.

 

For the PH problem. I had the same issue. PH of the tap water here is quite high around 7.8 to 8 and for my CRS I needed to keep it down to 6.7 or so. During the cycling of the tank I was trying different products and see how stable that PH drop was. The liquid PH ups and PH downs are rubbish, it is very easy to get the dosing wrong which can drop the PH very fast and that can kill the shrimp. From what the instructions say you should not drop more than 0.5 PH  per day. I tried it out and put the dose according to the instructions. What happened was that it dropped way down from 8 to 4. That would definitely kill everything in there from the shock. Few days later it was back to 8 again.

Then I changed to the RO water and BeeSHrimp to remineralize. After the ADA amazonia substrate  and the tank were cycled, with the use of RO water the PH dropped to 6.5 - 6.7. So my advise as other guys have written as well would be to use the active substrate together with RO water. + Almond leaves and alder cones, peat moss, ... -  the natural stuff. the Liquids and other chemicals are not safe from my point of view.