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TangTai adaptability and parameters


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I've currently got a tank set up for neos and have been looking more and more into getting some interesting looking tigers.
After some research, I got my curiosity piqued by TiBees (and more specifically TangTais) but don't know if they'll play nice in neo water.
I imagine the problem is that TTs are fine in neo water but the CRS/CBS/TBs they are bred to to get TiBees/TangTais are not, so the TTs are thrown in with CRS/CBS/TBs and the TiBee F1+ generation is born into caridina water.

Does anyone have any experience acclimating TangTais or TiBees into neo water? What kind of parameters are they tolerant too? Is this a fool's errand?
If I can't raise TiBees in the neo tank, I'll just have to settle with TTs.

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  • 1 month later...

Neos are adaptable so why not just lower your pH on them? To like 6.7-6.8? The Neos should fine with that. 

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A helpful tip is when purchasing your shrimp or if you have already found a supplier, ask them what their water parameter are, this will help you in which route to go.

 

I have kept Neos successfully in Caridina water parameters, so if it does come down to which set of water conditions to go with, stick with Caridina as Jessaweeshrimp has stated.

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4 hours ago, jessaweeshrimp said:

Neos are adaptable so why not just lower your pH on them? To like 6.7-6.8? The Neos should fine with that. 

 

That's actually the route I started going down, I removed some limestone I was using to buffer the pH and threw in some IALs to lower the kH to make the water more suitable for caridina. Even though I didn't see a significant change in pH (maybe half a point?) and a small change in kH (one point), I started seeing some neo deaths. I don't know if its because of changes in the water or if the TTs I added brought something along with them, but I pulled the IALs out two days ago because I can't say what's going on.

 

2 hours ago, DETAquarium said:

A helpful tip is when purchasing your shrimp or if you have already found a supplier, ask them what their water parameter are, this will help you in which route to go.

 

I have kept Neos successfully in Caridina water parameters, so if it does come down to which set of water conditions to go with, stick with Caridina as Jessaweeshrimp has stated.


Totally agree, the hard part is that no supplier keeps TangTais in neo parameters. Since TTs can handle caridina parameters and TBs can't comfortably move to neo parameters, it looks like all TangTais on the market live in caridina params.

I did try to move my neos to caridina params but I'm worried I'm causing deaths so I'm going to back off for a bit. 
My new plan is to get TTs (which are tolerant to neo params) and some Golden Bees to breed them to. I've heard that because GBs are less sought after and sprung up early in the shrimp-breeding game, they are relatively less inbred and therefore much more tolerant to params outside their comfort zone. If I can get just one or two GBs to breed with TTs in my neo tank, then I think I should be set for a super cheap breeding program. 
My TTs are adapting fine but I had some problems with the GBs I bought. Half died in transit, another quarter died before they even got into my tank, and then a couple more died in the first 12 hours. The only one to survive past then has been doing fine...so we'll see how that goes. 

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I moved (what I thought) was all pure TTs from card to neo parameters about 1.5 years ago.  The tank was very heavily stocked with blue dreams, so unfortunately they never took hold and faded out over the course of a year.  Of the TTs I moved, as several matured it appeared they weren't pure TT, but Tangtai.  Throughout the ~year they lived, I saw multiple berried fems, but never saw a population increase afterwards.....pointing the finger at baby survival rates.  I think you might be able to keep Tangtai in neo params, but I'm unsure if you can successfully breed them.

 

That said, with people having successful CRS colonies in neo params (even tap), I am sure it is doable, just might take a while to get there.

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11 minutes ago, Shrimple minded said:

I moved (what I thought) was all pure TTs from card to neo parameters about 1.5 years ago.  The tank was very heavily stocked with blue dreams, so unfortunately they never took hold and faded out over the course of a year.  Of the TTs I moved, as several matured it appeared they weren't pure TT, but Tangtai.  Throughout the ~year they lived, I saw multiple berried fems, but never saw a population increase afterwards.....pointing the finger at baby survival rates.  I think you might be able to keep Tangtai in neo params, but I'm unsure if you can successfully breed them.

 

That said, with people having successful CRS colonies in neo params (even tap), I am sure it is doable, just might take a while to get there.


Yup, I wouldn't be surprised if this idea is a total bust but I found some imported TTs and GBs for super cheap (this would explain the losses I'm seeing) so I figured it was a relatively low cost experiment (compared to buying actual TiBees, TangTais, or a combo of TTs and TBs). At the end of the day, I don't mind just having TTs and my Blue Diamonds if it doesn't pan out.

 

I can always get into the caridina game further down the road once I have space for dedicated tanks, I'm just curious to see what I can do with what I have.

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I set up a tank wanting to cross my RBT (pH 7.2-7.4) with affordable but USA bred Golden Bees and set that tank at 6.8. The GB came in water that was lower @6.4  but I dripped them in without a single loss. And eventually did the same with the RBT but some of those are MIA. 

But I am happy to report that the GB had two Mischling mixed in and as a result of that (most likely) I have a BB a couple CRS and a dozen or so CBS. I bought ten GB from one source and 10 more from somewhere else. 

I know within 3 months of set up have over a hundred amd its freaking me out. My TDS is 240 (having a hard time getting in lower) GH 6 and KH 1. I use Salty Shrimp so thats most likely why but they are some happy little bastards!

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1 hour ago, jessaweeshrimp said:

I set up a tank wanting to cross my RBT (pH 7.2-7.4) with affordable but USA bred Golden Bees and set that tank at 6.8. The GB came in water that was lower @6.4  but I dripped them in without a single loss. And eventually did the same with the RBT but some of those are MIA. 

But I am happy to report that the GB had two Mischling mixed in and as a result of that (most likely) I have a BB a couple CRS and a dozen or so CBS. I bought ten GB from one source and 10 more from somewhere else. 

I know within 3 months of set up have over a hundred amd its freaking me out. My TDS is 240 (having a hard time getting in lower) GH 6 and KH 1. I use Salty Shrimp so thats most likely why but they are some happy little bastards!

 

That's awesome! I've been dreaming of having BBs for years, I want to say they're part of the reason I even got into shrimp.

 

I'm pretty jealous, the more I pay attention to my tank, the more I think I just condemned it. I think I lost tens of baby Blue Diamonds and half of my adults in the last week or two, my guess is that my super cheap GBs and TTs might have brought along an infection. The population had been exploding over the last couple months with clutch after clutch and now the tank just seems so empty. I'm kicking myself for not quarantining the new shrimp, I just wanted to get them comfortable as fast as possible in the new tank since there were DOAs in the bags. Rookie mistake.

 

Sounds like you're pretty happy with your GBs, who did you get them from? I might look into getting some more once this mess is sorted out.

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I haven't gotten any imports except for when I first started and put them in a fish tank. They didn't get eaten but died within a month or two.

I think butpetshrimp.com was where I got some.

Shit I even used to dump the acclimated water into my tanks before I knew better but if its any consolation I don't quarantine either. Its like Russian roulette ? but I just got lucky and I also got them from people that are popular on the forumz ?

Popular usually equals knowledgeable and if they are selling then they must be producing excess. Their water parameters are usually better than mine too. Which considering where they are being downgraded to is a testament to the health of their stock ?

It will all come together just learn faster so your heart hurts less ? and buy American ?? 

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Of you start by hetting some Golden Bees and or Mischlings you will get some valuable hands on with the trickier varieties AND you will get CRS and CBS and sometimes the occasional BB and other rarities ? You just don't know and then its like winning a prize. 

By then you have a system developed and in place for shrimp care and will know what kind of tank tou want to set up for the more awesomer shrimps (your preference) and you pick the inhabitants from your colony and put the offspring that are less awesome back in your original tank. 

Use leaves IA and oak takes much longer to break down ? And have some natural anti-fungal and antibacterial on hand for any developments. I started with Painted Reds and watched a juvenile struggle with a white ball of fuzz that seemed stuck to his feet ? Treated the tank with a natural anti fungal liquid and saved the rest of the colony. 

It is nice to have some reset buttons or medications at your disposal just in case as long as they don't hurt your shrimp.

I have been at it for about 9 months or so and have 6 tanks now ? but have had outbreaks ? of sudden death, slow death, bad molts, pH spikes etc...

Once you have the tools and experience you will be ready to create your own Frankenstein shrimps ??? 

Just remember its the journey not the destination, Gods speed ?

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