TheGlassBox Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 JSak - They look beautiful! I'm excited for you! I live vicariously through you at the moment... I hope to get some later in the fall.... 😊 JSak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSak Posted September 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 That’s interesting. Until now I’ve thought that breather bags were by far the way to go. Does anyone have any ideas of instances or situations where using a breather bag might be better? Maybe for fish, longer shipping times or if you put more shrimp in a bag to ensure adequate oxygen is provided? The breather bags do seem pretty fragile, so I can understand the concern for risk of rupture during transit. The oxygen-carbon dioxide exchange of the breather bag sounds appealing, but I guess shrimp don’t take up much oxygen and if transit takes longer the build up of wastes would kill the shrimp faster than the loss of oxygen. I’ll definitely look into Poly bags in the future. Also, I’ve read that it’s not recommended to double bag or wrap the breather bag in anything that can tightly adhere to the inner bag because it prevents exchange of oxygen, which can lead to a hypoxic environment. I guess the breather bags act as a sort of membrane that has microscopic pores that allow oxygen and carbon dioxide to easily pass through, so by double bagging you can block these pores. That’s my understanding of how breather bags work from a biological standpoint for anyone interested! Thanks for all the input! I’m learning more and more 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanArtRebel1020 Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 Happy they arrived well!! congrats JSak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimp Life Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 2 hours ago, TheGlassBox said: I vote with the old fashioned poly bags too! The one thing I don't like about the breather bags is that you can't double bag them. The manufacturer says not to. I like to double bag. If one bag bursts, there's another bag to catch the water and possibly protect the livestock. Plus it contains the mess so the postal workers don't have to worry about what was in that dripping, soggy box... I buy bags from reputable sellers, but everything is cheaply made nowadays. And as you don't have to worry so much about a possible mess, you can feel better about shipping livestock with more water in the bag. We can pack things as best and responsibly as we can, but once the box is out of our hands, fate can intercede... So until the manufacturer tells us that it's okay to double bag breather bags, I'll stick with the old fashioned poly ones... Oh, and I once had an order that was lost by the post office and delivered after a week and a half. The shrimp were alive and healthy. I couldn't believe it! They were Neos, not anything delicate. But darn Neos can be tough!!! 😂 Agree! not being able to double bag concerns me. I had to go to poly after one too many of the breather bags were bursting or leaking, costing me money in reshipment and and I was using them properly, not filling them too tightly etc. I will never go back to breather bags for shrimp. JSak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGlassBox Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 Yup. I like the idea of the oxygen exchange, and not having air in the bag to cause sloshing. Those are obvious benefits. But when they break, it's game over as you can't double bag them... 😐 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGlassBox Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 26 minutes ago, JSak said: The oxygen-carbon dioxide exchange of the breather bag sounds appealing, but I guess shrimp don’t take up much oxygen and if transit takes longer the build up of wastes would kill the shrimp faster than the loss of oxygen. Yup. That's it exactly. Shrimp have a very tiny bioload. So we can ship the hardier species priority mail with 2-3 day shipping. I'd never try that with fish... That being said, if they're pricier shrimp, I personally always ask if the seller has overnight shipping, and I'm willing to pay extra for it. But Neos are pretty tough little guys... I think the oxygen exchange would be more beneficial for shipping fish... But I still like the poly bags even for those because I just like double bagging. The post office can get pretty cranky if they get a wet, soggy box... And technically you're supposed to double bag all liquids being shipped according to their regulations. Also, I pack all my livestock with cellulose insulation. If the bag is covered with it, wouldn't that effect the oxygen exchange ability of the bag as well? I suppose you could line the outside of the styrofoam liner with a large poly bag to contain leakage. But then the bag might bounce around inside the open space of the box... You'd have to have something to hold the bag stationary... And then you'd loose the benefits of the insulation... I think a perfect shipping method is also governed by the amount the average customer is willing to pay for shipping. So most of us just do the best we can to accommodate everyone that ensures the livestock has a high likelihood of a live arrival. Breather bags aren't a bad way to ship at all. They have some benefits, but they have drawbacks as well. It's just not a perfect world... Sigh... JSak and Shrimp Life 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSak Posted September 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 On 9/6/2019 at 2:22 PM, TheGlassBox said: Yup. That's it exactly. Shrimp have a very tiny bioload. So we can ship the hardier species priority mail with 2-3 day shipping. I'd never try that with fish... That being said, if they're pricier shrimp, I personally always ask if the seller has overnight shipping, and I'm willing to pay extra for it. But Neos are pretty tough little guys... I think the oxygen exchange would be more beneficial for shipping fish... But I still like the poly bags even for those because I just like double bagging. The post office can get pretty cranky if they get a wet, soggy box... And technically you're supposed to double bag all liquids being shipped according to their regulations. Also, I pack all my livestock with cellulose insulation. If the bag is covered with it, wouldn't that effect the oxygen exchange ability of the bag as well? I suppose you could line the outside of the styrofoam liner with a large poly bag to contain leakage. But then the bag might bounce around inside the open space of the box... You'd have to have something to hold the bag stationary... And then you'd loose the benefits of the insulation... I think a perfect shipping method is also governed by the amount the average customer is willing to pay for shipping. So most of us just do the best we can to accommodate everyone that ensures the livestock has a high likelihood of a live arrival. Breather bags aren't a bad way to ship at all. They have some benefits, but they have drawbacks as well. It's just not a perfect world... Sigh... Love this response! That’s pretty interesting considering many of the bigger shrimp sellers use breather bags, but maybe it has to do with keeping the customers happy by using a more expensive and fancier bag to make people think that they’re getting the top quality shipping supplies for their shrimp. I would imagine anything covering the bags would affect the oxygen exchange, so that’s a very good point. Thank you all for your responses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSak Posted September 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 So an update for anyone interested in good and not so good places to look for Cardinal Sulawesi shrimp: I found a seller on eBay who had a good rating (97%) on almost 200 reviews. Ironically, his screen name is Aquariumprofessionalcare0, and he offered Fedex overnight shipping (I really like Fedex the most as they seem to be the most reliable imo), but required a signature for delivery. Because of his good reviews I bought what was left of his stock (20 shrimp) and promptly emailed him asking if a signature was required if I could have it held for pickup if sent during the week, or if a Saturday deliver was possible. All he replied was, “I’m not sure if Saturday delivery is possible. I’ll check.” Didn’t hear back from him the rest of the week, but under the order it said “ETA Wednesday, 9/11” so I figured he was just planning to ship it Tuesday for Wednesday delivery and mark it hold for pickup. Yesterday (Saturday, 9/8) I received a message at around 6:30 pm my time saying “I shipped your shrimp out yesterday so make sure you’re home to sign for delivery”. I panicked because I stepped out for a couple hours earlier to go grocery shopping and find supplies for one of my tanks that sprung a leak. Long story short, I messaged the seller telling me to please keep me updated since this was not only an expensive order, but an order containing very fragile shrimp. Found out that instead of being delivered on Saturday, the expected delivery is tomorrow (Monday, 9/10) and I most likely won’t be home for delivery because I have class. I tried to call Fedex to change to hold for pickup, but they said due to the seller’s restrictions, only he can change delivery instructions. I messaged him last night and this morning asking if he got a hold of them, and no response. I said ironically earlier because he obviously doesn’t care about me as a customer or the animals he’s selling, and he’s definitely not professional in handling an obviously concerned customer. Still haven’t got the shrimp yet, but his interaction with me so far has left a bad taste in my mouth. I think I’ll have to ask sellers questions before ordering to get an idea of how they ship and do business. Unfortunately, I see a lot of sellers that won’t reply to you unless you purchase one of their products. It’s sad that the shrimp hobby has grown so much that there’s people who value business and money over the hobby. Hopefully the shrimp made it, but I think communication is key especially when shipping fragile and expensive animals such as these. rwong2k 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimp Life Posted September 9, 2019 Report Share Posted September 9, 2019 Looks like the seller on ebay is selling import Caridinal Sulawesi. Doesn't mention anything about HOMEBRED or even his tank parameters. No colony or tank photos either. Actually looks like he is using stock photos. This is about as high risk order as you can go with these type of shrimp. If they arrive alive, you may have some die off, and then you might also run the risk of bacterial infection etc and you'll be exposing your healthy homebred sulawesi to this if they share the same tank. His feedback is not really for shrimp, but for aquarium products which is very different. Something I've learned is when you find a good seller, give him repeat business. I wouldn't bother to try a different seller if you have a good source already, this is the 3rd seller you tried right? You said the last one was good did he run out?. Sometimes its better to wait then try a different seller, or work with what you have then waste money or risk dying and sick shrimp. 99% of shrimp sellers are businesses FIRST, not hobbyists first. This is their full time job, and they hustle to make $$. Keep that in mind, all the importers are businesses FIRST. Maybe ask people here in this forum where they got healthy nice Sulawesi or what we recommend, instead of trying these random sellers. It will likely save you time and money by asking other knowledgeable hobbyists. For me, if its not available or homebred/healthy... I'm not buying it until I find it. If it means I wait, then I will. Otherwise there's a good chance I'm wasting time and money. Let us know how it goes! TheGlassBox and JSak 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSak Posted September 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2019 @Shrimp Life I had never really thought about looking for details such as that, so I’m glad that I’ve been updating on this to hear feedback. The shrimp made it this morning and the packaging was actually very good and 15/20 came in alive. They look really nice and young, but we’ll see how it goes now that they’re in the tank. The 2nd seller did say he still has a lot so I will probably stick with them if I ever want to buy anymore. The priority shipping thing was my main concern with going with that seller, but it didn’t seem to affect the shrimp he sent (at least for this order). Most of the sellers/vendors I’ve been dealing with up till now have been pretty good at worst, so this was definitely a learning experience for me. I’ve been out of the hobby for over a year, and it looks like the shrimp hobby’s expanded pretty significantly in that time (for good and bad). Also, I was super into the aquarium hobby from a very young age and I grew up pretty much being the only person I knew that was into the aquarium hobby, which taught me to research and experiment on my own and learn by trial and error. I never had anyone to really ask about my aquarium questions except for the fish stores, so I’m very fortunate and grateful to have found a community of people as crazy about this hobby as I am. I just have to remember to use it more often 😅 Thanks for the feedback and advice! Shrimp Life 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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