OMG Aquatics Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Some things to consider: -The depth of the soil needs to be at least 1.1/2" to buffer properly. - RO water PH will climb as it ages. If you want to figure the cause of the problem you are having do this: get 2 small jars with nothing but 1.12" controsoil, add your original RO (without minerals) water to one of the jars and distilled water to the other one, add air stone to each jar and let them set overnight. then test the PH using the pen that you mentioned and unexpired liquid test kit. Do what Shrimpo says. Get some of the substrate and put it in a container with just RO water and add airstone. You can test pH daily but let it do its thing for 3-4 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyeGuy411 Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I highly doubt there is a problem with the Controsoil, you said you calibrated your pH pen recently? What process did you use to calibrate it and how have you been storing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadenlea Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Ryeguy I have the 2 solutions 4.0 and 7.0 and calibrate with those. Also, the API test kit confirms. if anything the pen is testing to LOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadenlea Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 when you say get some of the substrate... I am assuming you mean from the tank because the whole bag is in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMG Aquatics Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 when you say get some of the substrate... I am assuming you mean from the tank because the whole bag is in it. Dig some up from the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miwu Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 The TDS of my RO is 1 . Yes it is remineralized. after experimenting last night I found that it is the remin that bumped up the PH which is why I said it isnt the controsoil buffering it UP. BUT it doesnt seem to be buffering it down either. right now it is MK blue diamond remineralizing it. I feel like I must be missing some huge part of the puzzle about how to do this even though I have researched and googled a million times. Let me post exactly what I did and see if I missed something. Started with new tank. Washed all filter media and plants in RO water. Shrimp Daddy Vita and Sinewy cereal under the controsoil. Controsoil. Filled tank about 1/3 of the way with pure RO water just because I had a couple big containers of it. Added reminerilzer to a gallon jug of RO and and filled the tank to half. Added wood and plants .. Added a bit more water and thought to myself I should test the water. PH 7 What? Then I started experimenting. I took out all the plants, and wood. Put them in a bunch of buckets. Added Plain RO water and waited. Then tested. All kept the same PH Put plain RO water in a cup and added a couple handfuls of new controsoil. PH stayed the same. Put RO water in a cup. Added a bit of remin. PH shot up to 8. Then I emptied the tank again and figured Id try a different remineralizer. YES I EMPTIED IT AGAIN. By this time I was almost out of RO water so I started filling again .. had to wait a few hours to refill all that water. So now almost all the water is newly made. has not been sitting. Started filling.. Nothing in tank.. no plants or wood . Tested after about 1/3 full. Mixed MK Blue Diamond. A DIFFERENT Remin than the first time. Added it to tank and fille to half way.. Tested again. PH shot up to 7.2. So now I figure.... Maybe this is supposed to happen and the controsoil will buffer it back down overnight. Finished filling the tank and fell into bed. You have to think I just carried 18 gallons of water up 2 flights of stairs TWICE and spent the entire day. I was exhausted, sad, frustrated and feeling beaten and wanting to give up. Is there something I should be doing to my water before adding it so it doesnt shoot up the PH? I have heard people mentioning putting an air stone in... but the second time the water was all fresh made. I'm a little confused. Right now, you are using Controsoil + Shrimp Daddy Vita + Sinewy cereal + MK Blue Diamond + RO. The pH is 7.2. Early, you were using Controsoil + Shrimp Daddy Vita (?) + Sinewy cereal (?) + "a remineralizer" + RO + wood + plants. The pH was 7.0. After oxygenation overnight, pH was 6.9, KH 0, and GH 5. During your tests: RO --> pH 5.8, TDS 1. RO + wood + plants --> pH 7.0. Controsoil + RO --> pH 7.0. "a remineralizer" + RO --> pH 8.0. Does everything look right? I wasn't sure what you meant when you said "the same pH." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadenlea Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Oops Sorry Miwi. When I said stayed the same, I meant the PH stayed the same as plain RO water and didnt go up. During tests.. In a cup, not in tank Ro + wood _+ Plants the PH stayed at 5.8 so it wasnt the wood or plants. Controsoil + RO = 5.8 Add Remin it shot to 8.1 Then Filled Tank PH with everything back in was about 7 - 7.2 I forget.. so many numbers now and had dropped to 6.9 by this am. As the tank stands now it is at 6.8 -6.9 bouncing between the 2 as I move the pen around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMG Aquatics Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 What remineralizer are you using? Test your RO water pH after using airstone on RO water for 24 hours to get the CO2 out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimpo Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 when you say get some of the substrate... I am assuming you mean from the tank because the whole bag is in it. I thought you still have some unused substrate in the bag, there is no point of testing with the substrate from the tank as it has the additives you mentioned above. forget about testing RO water PH, our regular PH test kit will not be able to do so accurately. unless you get results by trying the 2 jars with RO and distilled water using fresh controsoil, you will be chasing your tail, also I think high ammonia will affect PH reading as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadenlea Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 OK here is the set up Experiment. Pure RO in a container. 5.6 Pure RO in a container after putting an airstone in for a few mins. 5.1 Pure RO in a container with a scoop of Controsoil from the tank. 6.5 Airstone is in. will test again tomorrow. No idea why my pictures are posting sideways. Wanted to show proof that Im not crazy. This water was made this morning btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadenlea Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Shrimpo when I filled the tank the second time I dumped the little that was left in the bag in to the tank. There is no ammonia. This is all new made water there were no creatures in it as I was rebuilding the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadenlea Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 PS. Ryeguy if I ever attempt another TB tank, I am going to make you come here and help me set it up since you live so close! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miwu Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 It really sounds like the only problem is the remineralizer. Which are you using? Some are supposed to buffer at a higher pH, or you might have received a bad batch of remineralizer. Duff0712 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadenlea Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I tried 2 different ones. Both regulars on the market used in TB tanks. right now in the tank is MK Blue Diamond. No matter what though, it seems to me that with nothing in the tank like baking soda to buffer it up... the controsoil SHOULD be buffering it down unless it is a bad batch. And you all have to admit it is strange that they just disappeared and arnt answering emails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phreeflow Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 That's so weird. I'm no scientist so correct me if I'm wrong but could it be that you're overdosing the remineralizer? I understand it's supposed to get the gH and kH to proper levels but doesn't it also raise pH? Also, wouldn't higher kH buffer the water so Controsoil won't be able to pull it down? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadenlea Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 the kh is 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phreeflow Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 That's really odd Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loumeer Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Your kH is 0 with a high pH. Something seems fucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadenlea Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 So results of the experiment. Jar with new made RO water, controsoil from tank and airstone. PH 6.7 (started at 5.8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Something seems fucky. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff0712 Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 So results of the experiment. Jar with new made RO water, controsoil from tank and airstone. PH 6.7 (started at 5.8) Are you able to do the same experiment, but with new/fresh controsoil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimple minded Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Jadenlea, have you compared your RO water from when it has been kept for a long time vs "aerated" RO? In your original post you stated that your water had been "sitting a while". I'd be interested to know if using the same test, without Controsoil, seeing where your pH goes just with aeration alone. Just off-gassing your RO could cause a pH rise........which your Controsoil would then have to buffer back down. I believe my RO is close to 6 fresh out of my storage container, but 7 if I aerate it overnight. Carbon dioxide, when dissolved in water, results in carbonic acid (pH decrease). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadenlea Posted November 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I would think that shrimple except the controls oil is not buffering it down. It was still 6.9 this am and 7 again tonite. How long will it take co2 to build? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimple minded Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I didn't see immediate buffering.......it took some time. Below are my first 15 or so days. My guess is that if you off-gassed your RO water, it would be closer to pH 7, and the Controsoil needs time to buffer. In fact, looking at the early results below, it looks like I didn't fully gas my water which resulted in initial pH rise on the first 3 days, then a slow buffering down trend. Stay the course. miwu and Vpier 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I didn't see immediate buffering.......it took some time. Below are my first 15 or so days. My guess is that if you off-gassed your RO water, it would be closer to pH 7, and the Controsoil needs time to buffer. In fact, looking at the early results below, it looks like I didn't fully gas my water which resulted in initial pH rise on the first 3 days, then a slow buffering down trend. Stay the course. I like this. What are you using to test ph? Is it some kine of wireless instrument or are you inputting the data yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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