pucksr Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 44 minutes ago, bostoneric said: because "tap water" is too general a term to use. your neighbor across the street could have completely different parameters out of their tap. tomorrow your city could add some chemical that may be safe in small amounts to you but could wipe out your entire tank. The reason we recommend RO for ALL shrimp is because its the cleanest base to start with. When people have problems and they ask for help its really hard to give them advice when they say they use tap water. too many variables come into play. That is true. Not saying that you shouldn't remineralize. However, A shrimp that can survive a wider range of Ph, Temperature, GH, KH, and TDS is going to be much easier. That was all I was saying. Easier means more widespread and more popular. There are even fish that need special water, but you won't find them at a lot of pet stores. Some of them are absolutely beautiful(licorice gouramis for example). However, everyone has seen neon tetras, which can survive in battery acid. Mr. F and ohmiko 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmiko Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Just now, pucksr said: That is true. Not saying that you shouldn't remineralize. However, A shrimp that can survive a wider range of Ph, Temperature, GH, KH, and TDS is going to be much easier. That was all I was saying. Easier means more widespread and more popular. There are even fish that need special water, but you won't find them at a lot of pet stores. Some of them are absolutely beautiful(licorice gouramis for example). However, everyone has seen neon tetras, which can survive in battery acid. Did not know about the neon tetras ? But ugh these ahrimp are so beautiful a shame I missed out I didn't know it was kept in neo water. :-( I saw Sulawesi and didn't even bother ? ibebian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 1 hour ago, pucksr said: I really have to say, these are pretty exciting. I am somewhat amazed how our hobby seems to ignore "tap water" shrimp. Some extra care and sensitivity are one thing, but when an organism requires "special water", it will just never be as widespread in the aquarium hobby as a tap water species. German fish breeders for decades and now shrimp breeders adapt whatever they are breeding to their tap water. Bostoneric is spot when it comes to everyone's tap water being different. If you look at Bangkok, the tap water is perfect for soft water fishes and they do 100% water changes on daily bases and some do it every few hours straight from the tap. Its one of the reason why Thai's are some of them best breeders in the world. Then you have cities like Flint MI and the water is poisonous to humans. EricM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 26 minutes ago, pucksr said: That is true. Not saying that you shouldn't remineralize. However, A shrimp that can survive a wider range of Ph, Temperature, GH, KH, and TDS is going to be much easier. That was all I was saying. Easier means more widespread and more popular. There are even fish that need special water, but you won't find them at a lot of pet stores. Some of them are absolutely beautiful(licorice gouramis for example). However, everyone has seen neon tetras, which can survive in battery acid. what part is not true? My point is about tap water. not about finding a shrimp that can "survive" in wide range of parameters. lets also not mistake survive with thrive. for example...we have a local small breeder in SoCal who over years was able to acclimate and now raise a breeding colony of CRS in his tap water. I know the water that comes out of my tap would be terrible for soft water shrimp, even likely too hard for Sulawesi. If I were to buy CRS from him (without asking about his parameters) I would naturally try to keep them in standard CRS parameters and they would die. The point is... "tap water" is too general a term for keeping shrimp, it should really stop being used, and best to find out the parameters from the person you are buying from. Vpier, ohmiko and Tlhn97 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pucksr Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 1 hour ago, bostoneric said: what part is not true? My point is about tap water. not about finding a shrimp that can "survive" in wide range of parameters. lets also not mistake survive with thrive. for example...we have a local small breeder in SoCal who over years was able to acclimate and now raise a breeding colony of CRS in his tap water. I know the water that comes out of my tap would be terrible for soft water shrimp, even likely too hard for Sulawesi. If I were to buy CRS from him (without asking about his parameters) I would naturally try to keep them in standard CRS parameters and they would die. The point is... "tap water" is too general a term for keeping shrimp, it should really stop being used, and best to find out the parameters from the person you are buying from. Tap water is different=True Remineralized pure water(RO/Distilled) is better= True It is easier to consistently maintain shrimp with RO water=True You can acclimate most shrimp to some tap water=True Shrimp that have wider acceptable water parameters are no better than shrimp with narrower acceptable water parameters because everyone should just learn to remineralize=NOT TRUE I am simply arguing that "easy" shrimp are great for the hobby. They will encourage more people to get involved in the hobby. Look at most people with invert tanks, they keep neos. Why? They are easy and you can potentially use tap water. I am not arguing that it wouldn't be better to use RO water. I am not arguing that they aren't running some risks. I am simply saying that it makes it more popular. 1 hour ago, Vpier said: German fish breeders for decades and now shrimp breeders adapt whatever they are breeding to their tap water. Bostoneric is spot when it comes to everyone's tap water being different. If you look at Bangkok, the tap water is perfect for soft water fishes and they do 100% water changes on daily bases and some do it every few hours straight from the tap. Its one of the reason why Thai's are some of them best breeders in the world. Then you have cities like Flint MI and the water is poisonous to humans. The Bangkok example supports what I am trying to say. If you go into the average local fish store, they might have some neos. You will be lucky if they have anything else. Why? Too difficult for the fish store owner to keep alive Tiger/Bee/etc without a lot of specialty care. We have all seen the tank of dead shrimp at the LFS. It is also more difficult for commercial-level breeding because you have to use RO water. Bangkok breeds them in massive 500 gallon tanks because they have the right water and the right temperatures. In certain areas, CRS shrimp are more common in fish stores because they can keep them in tap water and they don't need chilled-water tanks. My point: I am not advising that someone just dump expensive shrimp into a bucket of tap water. I even appreciate the point about "tap water" being a bad term. What I am saying is that I am very excited about shrimp that have a wider tolerance for "bad water". Neos, malawa, babaulti, and now these shrimp are excellent additions to the hobby. These color morphs are particularly exciting. There is a big difference between being able to "adapt" an aquatic organism to different parameters and an organism being more tolerant of different parameters. The more tolerant species(hardier species) are typically more popular in the trade. Take a look at the fish in the aquarium trade: Guppies/Mollies/etc: These are all brackish water estuary fish which have evolved to survive in an insane range of water parameters(including ocean water). Neons/Cardinals/Corys/Angelfish/etc: These are all Amazon river basin species that have evolved to survive the Amazon flooding, they can tolerate wild swings in pH and other parameters. Now, keeping an aquarium with nasty water just because these fish can "survive" is not good practice. I wouldn't encourage it. I am simply saying that the freshwater tropical fish hobby has thrived because of these very tolerant species. They are easier to ship, easier to store, easier to sell, and less likely to be killed by an amateur. All of these things help the hobby grow. Shrimp Life and Mr. F 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimp Life Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 4 minutes ago, pucksr said: I am simply arguing that "easy" shrimp are great for the hobby. They will encourage more people to get involved in the hobby. Look at most people with invert tanks, they keep neos. I totally agree... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvidiagefore Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Is this really Sulawesi ? they look like taiwan bee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Many caridina have similer patterns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Smaller than a bee, neo size. The ones I have dont look anything like a Taiwan bee other than having black in them. Soothing Shrimp and Vshrimp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimp lady Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 I thought this thread was about what the seller had to offer?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1lildave Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 Pm'd Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 12 hours ago, Shrimp lady said: I thought this thread was about what the seller had to offer?.... It was until SteveR sold out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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