Paul lim Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 The ph 6.4 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkshould I add more ammonia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMG Aquatics Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Adding more ammonia won't help since there's already ammonia in the tank. At this point, if you're using buffering substrate, you can increase KH to increase pH but it will definitely decrease the buffering ability by a lot and dose some more one and only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGlassBox Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 "pH DOES matter. There's a reason why they tell you to wait 24-48 hours after adding products like Prime which detoxify ammonia. The bacteria TSS and Dr Tims require ammonia. Prime as well as low pH turns ammonia into ammonium so the bacteria you add simply just dies off since there's no food source." Prime won't interfere with the cycling process. That's because Niitrosomonas (the ammonia bug) is capable of utilizing ammonium as well as ammonia for energy. It's also found in soil where the available source is solely ammonium and performs the same function of converting it to nitrite. Most bottled bacteria will work at lower pHs as well. Nitrobacter has an optimum range of 7.6-7.8 but will grow anywhere from 5.8-8.5. Nitrosomonas has an optimun ph range of 6.0-9.0. But you're right about handling during transport. Bacteria can be stressed, they're living things. But I've been lucky, and never got a bad bottle of TSS. And Dr. Tims customer support could sure use some work.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGlassBox Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Oh yeah, I used it to speed cycle my last Amazonia Soil tank. It took 2 weeks for the ammonia reading to finally hit zero. But Amazonia soil gives off Ammonia forever!! But you could see the cycle working the whole time. Within a day I got a nitrite spike that lasted about 5 days (takes them a while to build up particularly with the amount of ammonia that Amazonia Soil gives off) and nitrates appeared right after. I used distilled water (KH = 0) and reconstituted it to a GH of 6 with Salty Shrimp GH. The good thing about it is that you don't have to add any ammonia, the soil will do it for you. But I think that's the last time I'll use Amazonia. It just takes too long to cycle with all the ammonia in it. Actually it's probably ammonium as its coming from soil The API test will read both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul lim Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 22 days cycle results. Looks like Ammonia go down, nitrate goes up but nitrite is not moving at all times. What's going wrong? Should I add more ammonia?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimple minded Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 How old are your API test kits? Some of the tests need to be VIGOROUSLY shaken (or banged against a dense object) for several (5-10) minutes as they can crystallize from solution. I rubber band all of my API tests together, wrap them in a towel, and shake/swing/beat them for a LONG time before use. TheGlassBox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul lim Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Oh I did shake it for about a minute every time before I use.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMG Aquatics Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Adding more ammonia isn't going to make nitrite move when ammonia is already present in the aquarium. The only time you NEED to add ammonia is if your ammonia is 0. Since nitrates are moving up slowly, chances are the bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate is growing equally or faster than the bacteria converting ammonia to nitrite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul lim Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 there're lots of white dots growing in the cycle tank ,what should I do?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul lim Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Adding more ammonia isn't going to make nitrite move when ammonia is already present in the aquarium. The only time you NEED to add ammonia is if your ammonia is 0. Since nitrates are moving up slowly, chances are the bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate is growing equally or faster than the bacteria converting ammonia to nitrite. So the nitrite 0 is normal? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMG Aquatics Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 17 minutes ago, Paul lim said: So the nitrite 0 is normal? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk In some cases, yes. This is just an example. http://cdn.spectrumbrands.com/~/media/UPG/Tetra/Aquarium/Water Care/Start Up/SafeStartCharts.ashx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGlassBox Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Yup, I agree with OMG. Looks like your cycle is moving along. You're not seeing any purple on the nitrite test because the population of bacteria is already there, and is converting nitrite to nitrate fast enough so no nitrite is present in the water. If they weren't there, you wouldn't be seeing any nitrates, and you are! I think you're almost there. Don't add any more ammonia and I'll bet what ammonia is left will be gone in 2-3 days. I think you're almost done! As for the white dots, it's hard to tell what they are from the picture.... Could you try and get a clearer shot? Could be harmless, but 1 or two look like they could be hydra... that larger one in the center that looks like a little cross. Probably just nothing, but see if you can get a clearer shot. You know, they sell these little macro lenses that go over a cell phone lens and take some pretty darn amazing shots! And they're dirt cheap. Here's one on Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/Universal-iRAG-Fisheye-Designed-smartphones/dp/B00RKNRD1O/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1490032367&sr=8-16&keywords=macro+lens+for+cell+phone $3.99 with Prime shipping! You can't shake a stick at that! I got one and look at the picture I took of a PRL. No lights or fancy set up. Just clipped the macro over my cell phone lens and shot it. Seriously, it rivals my $600 Tameron! Here's the pic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGlassBox Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Shrimple minded said: How old are your API test kits? Some of the tests need to be VIGOROUSLY shaken (or banged against a dense object) for several (5-10) minutes as they can crystallize from solution. I rubber band all of my API tests together, wrap them in a towel, and shake/swing/beat them for a LONG time before use. ROTFL!!!!! Yes, the nitrate kit does need a bit of abuse. The instructions say to shake bottle #2 for 30 seconds, but if you've ever spoken with their tech support they tell you 2 minutes. I call it "the 2 minute tango". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul lim Posted March 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Adding more ammonia isn't going to make nitrite move when ammonia is already present in the aquarium. The only time you NEED to add ammonia is if your ammonia is 0. Since nitrates are moving up slowly, chances are the bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate is growing equally or faster than the bacteria converting ammonia to nitrite. the nitrate is up to 40ppm , ammonia .50. Nitrite stay 0. What am I waiting for?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMG Aquatics Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Paul lim said: the nitrate is up to 40ppm , ammonia .50. Nitrite stay 0. What am I waiting for? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ammonia to hit 0 then add 1 ppm ammonia. Since shrimp have low bioload, a filter that can remove 1 ppm ammonia within 24 hours is good enough for me. Once filter can remove 1ppm ammonia within 24 hours and no nitrite, your tank is ready for shrimp. I'd do a 90-95% water change the day before your shrimp arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGlassBox Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 You're getting closer..... the ammonia is going down and the nitrates are going up. That's what you want to see.... I never saw a positive nitrite reading from your tests, but sometimes that happens. Sometimes the spike is very fast and you miss it. But the bacteria that break nitrite down into nitrate *are* there or you wouldn't be seeing any nitrates! Ammonia ---> Nitrite ----> Nitrate From Saturday to Monday your ammonia reading was cut in half. And your nitrates went up. Maybe 3 more days? Should we all start placing bets on this one? LOL! You're almost there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul lim Posted March 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 ammonia to hit 0 then add 1 ppm ammonia. Since shrimp have low bioload, a filter that can remove 1 ppm ammonia within 24 hours is good enough for me. Once filter can remove 1ppm ammonia within 24 hours and no nitrite, your tank is ready for shrimp. I'd do a 90-95% water change the day before your shrimp arrives.Thanks:)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul lim Posted March 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 You're getting closer..... the ammonia is going down and the nitrates are going up. That's what you want to see.... I never saw a positive nitrite reading from your tests, but sometimes that happens. Sometimes the spike is very fast and you miss it. But the bacteria that break nitrite down into nitrate *are* there or you wouldn't be seeing any nitrates! Ammonia ---> Nitrite ----> Nitrate From Saturday to Monday your ammonia reading was cut in half. And your nitrates went up. Maybe 3 more days? Should we all start placing bets on this one? LOL! You're almost there. [emoji4] I just tested my tap water which is on the left My ammonia in the tank is 0 . Nitrate going up.Hahahaha I think I'm almost there. So I should add more ammonia now ??? Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThere's lots of white dots moving buds in the cycle tank, what should I do ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterBee Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 9 hours ago, Paul lim said: I just tested my tap water which is on the left My ammonia in the tank is 0 . Nitrate going up. Hahahaha I think I'm almost there. So I should add more ammonia now ??? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk There's lots of white dots moving buds in the cycle tank, what should I do ? It's a pretty good chance they're Ostracods. I'd leave them be. Did you by chance notice how they move about? Their swimming style is described as the "aimless wandering of drunken bumblebees." They're harmless little detritivore crustaceans, and are sampling your rapidly developing biofilm, You should consider them a good omen, they usually indicate a sufficient amount of dissolved minerals, and good water quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGlassBox Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 3 questions: 1st: Are the white dots free swimming in the open water, or are they stuck to the tank wall? 2nd: If the test tube on the left is your own water from the tap - it looks positive for ammonia... Do you have ammonia in your tap water??!!! Do you have city water or are you on a well? Or am I misunderstanding this? 3rd: Is the sample on the right from your tank? It doesn't look like a zero to me, it looks like it's at 0.25 ppm.. But the color chart isn't in the picture so it could just be my monitor... You'd be the best judge of that since you're not looking at it on a monitor and you have the color card there..... So next time include the color card in the picture. If it has indeed hit zero, do a large water change to bring your nitrates down to the 10-20 range (maybe 50%?) and then add enough ammonia to bring it back up to 1 ppm. There's a great cycling calculator that will tell you how much to add to achieve this here: http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm Scroll down to the bottom of the page... It's not always on the money but takes a lot of the guess work out. But I'm more concerned about question #2... You shouldn't be drinking that if that's your water.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul lim Posted March 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 1st they swim and moving on the tank wall2nd last night is my 1st time tested the tap water without add any chemicals. City water.Thanks for your concern, I'll check the tap water again and see what's going on with the ammonia reading, it should not have ammonium in the tap water right? Thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGlassBox Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 If they free swim then they're not hydra. Probably harmless ostracods.... Hah - I just googled it. Cloramine can produce a false positive on an API ammonia test. Are you on city water? They used to add chlorine to city water to kill bacteria but nowadays they use mostly chloramine, I think. I'm on a well.... So I've never run into the issue. Perhaps others on the board can chime in? Repeat the test on you're tap water and then if it's positive call the department in charge of testing the city water in your area. Ask if they add chloramines to the water. Tell them you're getting a positive ammonia result on the API test kit. They may offer to test your water for you using another method that won't cross react w/ cholramines for free.... Just a thought. Maybe other city folk on the board have more experience with this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimple minded Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 http://www.richmondgov.com/dpu/WaterQualityReports.aspx 2015 report shows that Richmond uses Chloramine. TheGlassBox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul lim Posted March 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Ok now shrimp minded had find out that my areas tap water there's ammonia, so is that mean I'll never get 0 ammonia if I'm cycle my tank with tap water? Actually my plan is cycle the tank with tap water and when the cycle is done I'll change to bottled distilled water. So what should I do now ? Should I change the tap water to distilled water? Thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimple minded Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Can just use Seachem Prime or equivalent to remove chloramine, if you aren't already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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