40B Knasty Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 I have an Aquatop CAF 60 sponge filter that I am about cycle for my neocaridina tank with a Top Fin 5g air pump that I had laying around hooked up to the sponge filter. I have a few questions regarding the setup due to never had used sponge filter before. I can handle technicalities. So fire away and thanks for the help! My questions are: A) Is the 5g Top Fin air pump good enough for this size sponge filter? B.)What are the real major benefits or negative impacts between using a 5g or 20g pump? C) Would a 5g air pump be more beneficial for baby shrimp so they will not be sucked into the sponge filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy6107 Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 how big is the tank? is this the only filter you will be using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40B Knasty Posted November 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 20g and yes this will be the only filter. I have a 5g cycled about a month old with a FLUVAL 50 with 2 bags of Cnodes in it with a sponge on the intake that the shrimp are in now with 4 plants. Lit by a T5 with an ATI Blue Plus and Coral Plus. I am looking to transfer when it is finished or separate the blues and Sunkist when the 20g is cycled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy6107 Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 I'd go with the bigger air pump. However you might look in to other brands if noise is an issue. I have read many reviews about this brand being too loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40B Knasty Posted November 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, chappy6107 said: I'd go with the bigger air pump. However you might look in to other brands if noise is an issue. I have read many reviews about this brand being too loud. What would be the reason why to go bigger? The air pump is quiet on a carpet/rug in the other room. It's not the air pump mortar that is loud at all. Actually ya can't hear it. It's the vibration if put under a cabinet or hardwood floor that would technically make it loud. I am looking for like someone who has conducted a study on intake that knows the differences in pressures, because just saying go bigger with no significant increase of water drawn in that could be changed only by the length of the tube that comes out the top. I would just need a longer tube to draw more suction vs a bigger pump. Cost difference would be about $20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy6107 Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 I apologize, as I am not someone who has conducted a study on intake that knows the differences in pressures. I just know what I know from years...decades of using air pumps, canister filters, hang on back filter, etc. I just responded to your question because nobody else had, and thought you would appreciate any input you were given. you have a 20g tank so I would use a pump rated for at least 20g as compared to a 5g pump used on a 20g tank. Most of the pumps out there as well as filters are not strong enough for the rating they advertise. If just putting on a longer tube would get the result you are wanting then it seems you have it figured out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40B Knasty Posted November 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, chappy6107 said: I apologize, as I am not someone who has conducted a study on intake that knows the differences in pressures. I just know what I know from years...decades of using air pumps, canister filters, hang on back filter, etc. I just responded to your question because nobody else had, and thought you would appreciate any input you were given. you have a 20g tank so I would use a pump rated for at least 20g as compared to a 5g pump used on a 20g tank. Most of the pumps out there as well as filters are not strong enough for the rating they advertise. If just putting on a longer tube would get the result you are wanting then it seems you have it figured out. I do not have it figured out. That's why I am still asking. There is nothing online that I can dig up aside of the creation of more suction with a longer tube. I like technicalities and I am use to it with having a 65g reef tank. I have heard every song and dance from stores, but I know it is always best to ask the buyers vs the sellers of products. For example if you happen to have T5 bulbs on your shrimp tank to keep plants alive. There was a set standard time when everyone believed that you should change out the bulbs and that was 7-10 months. It's not true. You can do it after 15-18 months. So this brought the standards of the 2 comparisons of an LED fixture that gets a lot of praise in the reefing community, but the lighting efficiency is not even comparable to a T5 cause of shadowing. So now all LEDs is best known for is color adjustability of the tanks lighting vs a T5 that is plug and play and can be cheaper in the long run if the T5 fixture last longer than 5 years usually rated for an LED and LEDs start to lose PAR after 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyzazz Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 I'd use the largest filter and largest volume pump you can, the more air you put through a pump the more air-lift it provides & that increases suction at the sponge. This in turn, creates more efficient filtration. You can increase suction by increasing the air lift as well (adding a longer tube) and you can quiet that tube (bubble noise) down by adding an elbow at the surface of the water. This will also give you a flow direction in the tank, which is helpful. If you are only running a tank or two, you can also run the filters with powerheads. This keeps things quiet and gives you way more filtration and flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40B Knasty Posted November 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 I put the Aquatop 60 CAF dead smach in the middle so it disperses evenly throughout the the tank and draws in suction from all around the tank vs one side. Also it is a little forward in the tank so I can observe them. It also reduces the amount of bubbles from popping at the top and hitting the splash guard to the T5 fixture. I am looking more to breed shrimp. One cause they are cool and the other reason is for my Pea Puffer. She is a hunter. The pond snails are more for feeding her, but when the population of shrimp need to be trimmed down. I know where to find them. The air pump I was looking at is the Uniclife adjustable nob with a single stem. There is also a 2 stem pump. It probably produces more GPH. I was thinking of getting the 2 stem and combining them with a T valve and line that into the Aquatop 60 CAF. Right now the Top Fin 5g is looking good with bubbles. Low flow for sure. The contact time for Nitrosomonas, Nitrospira, and Nitrobacter bacteria to consume ammonia and nitrites to break them down to nitrates can work both ways. Slow flow will be more contact time. High flow more times circulated to pass over the beneficial bacteria. I just don't want to see 20-30 baby shrimp get sucked up. Rather them just enjoy a fitting stable environment. So if anyone has used the Uniclife adjustable air pump. Let me know if it is any good. Thanks for the help! VID_20181107_235304.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40B Knasty Posted November 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 16 hours ago, wyzazz said: I'd use the largest filter and largest volume pump you can, the more air you put through a pump the more air-lift it provides & that increases suction at the sponge. This in turn, creates more efficient filtration. You can increase suction by increasing the air lift as well (adding a longer tube) and you can quiet that tube (bubble noise) down by adding an elbow at the surface of the water. This will also give you a flow direction in the tank, which is helpful. If you are only running a tank or two, you can also run the filters with powerheads. This keeps things quiet and gives you way more filtration and flow. Does the bubble amount look okay for the girth of the sponge? When I lift the whole thing to the top where the water line is and the tube is barely braking the surface. Water is coming out. To high and it just bubbles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyzazz Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 I'd personally want more flow/more bubbles. High-flow means more water flowing through that sponge, which means more food for nitrifying bacteria. Higher- flow also means more agressive (aerobic) bacteria that break down waste faster. You can put a deli cup on the airline to keep the bubbles from splashing up and hitting your light fixture. Or extend the tube with PVC and put an elbow on the end to create directional flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40B Knasty Posted November 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 29 minutes ago, wyzazz said: I'd personally want more flow/more bubbles. High-flow means more water flowing through that sponge, which means more food for nitrifying bacteria. Higher- flow also means more agressive (aerobic) bacteria that break down waste faster. You can put a deli cup on the airline to keep the bubbles from splashing up and hitting your light fixture. Or extend the tube with PVC and put an elbow on the end to create directional flow. What would be a suggested pump that is not to pricey in the $20 range. Like I said before to the other person I have no clue for the stats on these types of filters. There is no videos that I have seen of someone saying,"I have this sponge filter and pairs perfectly with this air pump and none of my baby shrimp have ever died from it." Someone saying get a higher rated pump doesn't really answer the conundrum. What is to low and what is to high for a sponge with this circumference? I am not trying to sound like a jerk about all this. I can see how it would be. I just always want what is best for them to be happy with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyzazz Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 Couldn't tell you, I use a Jehmco LPH45 and run 30 outlets on it. It's a $200 pump. I can only suggest that you buy the most powerful pump you can afford, you can always turn down the flow with an inline valve if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40B Knasty Posted November 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 20 minutes ago, wyzazz said: Couldn't tell you, I use a Jehmco LPH45 and run 30 outlets on it. It's a $200 pump. I can only suggest that you buy the most powerful pump you can afford, you can always turn down the flow with an inline valve if needed. Well I can get somewhat of a guesstimate. I don't know how to word it properly, but what is the flow/air pressure/gph for it? Then I can take that and divide it by 30. Unless you have adjustable valve stems on it to turn them down. If you are straight lining them. You may have answered it. Say if it is a 300g pump÷30 units it flows to = 10g pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyzazz Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 http://www.jehmco.com/html/lph45.html 620.31 GPH at 1.5PSI Some of the taller tanks do have the air turned down a bit, lower tanks (need more pressure) are wide open. 40B Knasty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40B Knasty Posted November 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, wyzazz said: http://www.jehmco.com/html/lph45.html 620.31 GPH at 1.5PSI Some of the taller tanks do have the air turned down a bit, lower tanks (need more pressure) are wide open. Thanks for that. So roughly 20g. 30g would be safe to say and adjust it with the valve stem I have already. What is the circumference of the sponge filters you use? The Aquatop CAF-60 is 5.5" in diameter and 8.5" tall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyzazz Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 I use HMF's and Sponges, all different tank sizes and all different sponge filter sizes. All the tanks have HMF's (10's, 20's, 29's 40B's, 20gal Hex) and some have an additional cycled sponge that I can use if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40B Knasty Posted November 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 43 minutes ago, wyzazz said: I use HMF's and Sponges, all different tank sizes and all different sponge filter sizes. All the tanks have HMF's (10's, 20's, 29's 40B's, 20gal Hex) and some have an additional cycled sponge that I can use if needed. Okay, I just checked out the HMF. That's a lot nicer setup and so simple to do. Wish I knew about that before hand. Seems a lot safer for when the shrimp are swimming around vs hitting a pocket of bubbles rising and getting tossed around. I might want to rethink this tank. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyzazz Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 No problem, the shrimp are pretty much unaffected by bubbles and being tossed around by them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40B Knasty Posted November 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2018 On 11/8/2018 at 10:11 AM, wyzazz said: No problem, the shrimp are pretty much unaffected by bubbles and being tossed around by them though. Changed the air pump to an AQUATOP AP-100. Rated for 50-100gph. 3.19psi x 2. 4 Watts. Tell me what you all think? Is there anything I should do different? VID_20181112_034148.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyzazz Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 Looks good to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNCarpenter Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 For smaller air pumps I have had good luck with the fusion line of pumps. If your going to run 5 to 10 small tanks I'd recommend hygger 10watt air pump from Amazon. Its 56 bucks and is silent other than the air. Each output is independent so if one is left open the other can still be used. Only thing is to remember to clean the air intake filter. That goes for all aquarium pumps thoes little bits of cotton do get full of dust or cat hair rather fast and combine that with algae growing in you lift tubes and stuff can reduce the efficiency of your sponge filters over time when ideally you want more filtration as your colony grows. Oh and for good specs on the.fusion pumps dr.fosterandsmith.com has a nice chart. I think the 600 is the best value if I remember right not 100% as I got the hygger about 9 months ago I I think and it has been running 12 sponges or hmf's perfectly on a 3/4" PVC manifold loop.Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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