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winter breeding


nicpapa

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Hello there.

How is your breeding routines going?

it have been years now , that shirmps dont breed in winter, i keep aroud 20 tanks.

Shrimps stop breeding from novemer to march.

Temp no plays role,  i keep tanks without heat and tanks with heat , also some tanks with more light and some wiht less.

I saw crs breeding in 15c,,,, and in another tank with 22 c from 200-300 srhimps no one breeding with same light.

After a  lot of research the only think that it play roles in winter is barometric presure.

The crazy is that a friend living here , he saw some breeding in winter.

The only think its in my mind is that my shrimp room dont have a good  insulation so barometric presure is the same as outside...

In house with a good insulation  aircodition can change the barometric presure, and keep it stable .

What is your opinion about breeding in winter ?

 

 

 

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great topic for discussion.

i notice my neos, tangerine tigers, oebt, sulawesi breed all year. my taiwan bee, pintos i notice less berried during the winter months. ive always wonder if it was the atmospheric pressure similar to wet and dry seasons for some apistos

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Yeah, I've noticed the same thing.  My Neos breed year round, but all my caridinias seem to slow down or stop during the winter.  I always wondered if day length had something to do with it like it does for many plants.  I have lights on some of my tanks, but they're within view of a window.  Perhaps the lights don't fool them if they can see the light in the rest of the room getting brighter and dimmer with the time of year?

 

The only way to test that theory would be to set up a tank in a room with no windows, or to cover up the windows and then put lights on a timer.  Start out with shorter light intervals and then slowly increase and see if they start breeding.  I've actually thought of trying it LOL!

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3 hours ago, TheGlassBox said:

Yeah, I've noticed the same thing.  My Neos breed year round, but all my caridinias seem to slow down or stop during the winter.  I always wondered if day length had something to do with it like it does for many plants.  I have lights on some of my tanks, but they're within view of a window.  Perhaps the lights don't fool them if they can see the light in the rest of the room getting brighter and dimmer with the time of year?

 

The only way to test that theory would be to set up a tank in a room with no windows, or to cover up the windows and then put lights on a timer.  Start out with shorter light intervals and then slowly increase and see if they start breeding.  I've actually thought of trying it LOL!

 

The place i have them dont have lot of day light.

You can try to put more lights , but i never  saw somethin happens.
 

 

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Barometric pressure must have something to do with this.

i was reading a chart wiht hPa .

Below is months and the average values of the months

This is from my place for year 2018.

 

1  1015.4

2  1014.1

3  1013.4

4  1011.8

5  1011.6

6  1009.8

7  1007.0

8  1007.5

9  1011.4

10  1011.6
11  1016.4

12  1015.6

 

You can see that in months  wth the red ,shrimps dont breed

So it must have some reration with hpa. :)

So how can we trick them to breed?

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Yes, but did you ever try varying the light cycle?  Or is it kept constant all the time?  It's the shortening of day-length that causes leaves to turn red in the autumn and many plants (like apples) to form fruit.  But that's for plants.  It was just a thought...

 

The barometric pressure data looks like an interesting possibility.  But how could you prove it?  You'd need a room in your house that you could manipulate the pressure...  I worked in a positive pressure clean room for many years when I worked in a lab.  The room was sealed and air tight.  Then fans blew extra air into the room to increase the pressure inside, so there was always a whoosh of air rushing out of the room when you opened the door.  The idea is that dust, bacteria etc. is less likely to enter the room if air rushes out rather than is pulled into the room.  Then you'd have to have something to control the pressure at a set point...

 

It'd be a tough one to prove.  And probably impractical to use it to induce breeding for most people. But it's a great hypothesis! 

 

😊

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40 minutes ago, TheGlassBox said:

Yes, but did you ever try varying the light cycle?  Or is it kept constant all the time?  It's the shortening of day-length that causes leaves to turn red in the autumn and many plants (like apples) to form fruit.  But that's for plants.  It was just a thought...

 

The barometric pressure data looks like an interesting possibility.  But how could you prove it?  You'd need a room in your house that you could manipulate the pressure...  I worked in a positive pressure clean room for many years when I worked in a lab.  The room was sealed and air tight.  Then fans blew extra air into the room to increase the pressure inside, so there was always a whoosh of air rushing out of the room when you opened the door.  The idea is that dust, bacteria etc. is less likely to enter the room if air rushes out rather than is pulled into the room.  Then you'd have to have something to control the pressure at a set point...

 

It'd be a tough one to prove.  And probably impractical to use it to induce breeding for most people. But it's a great hypothesis! 

 

😊

 

I cant prove it.. :)

Do you know if aircodition can change a litle the pressure?

I saw breeder, use it all the winter.

 

The only think i can do it playing wiht lights again.

I add in one tank more ligh , and more hours.

In the past i try and 14hours.. but nothing happens.

 

 

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I don't think an air conditioner would do it as they pull air from inside a room, cool it and push the same air back into the same room.  They don't take air from the outdoors.  So there would be no net change.  It would need to be something like an exhaust fan, but in reverse so it took air from outdoors and pumped it in.

 

Well, now you've got the Science Nerd in me going LOL!

 

I've always wanted to try the light experiment, just never got the time...  It would take probably 2 months at least.  If you try it, try running the lights for only say, 5 hours for a month.  Then increase it to maybe 10 or 12 hours.  That kind of thing will trigger plants to bloom or fruit.  And if there's a window in the room, pull the shade and close the curtains to make it as dark as possible when the lights are out.  If there's too much light leaking in, it might be enough to trigger a normal day cycle for them, as opposed to the artificial one you're trying to create.  And it doesn't take much.  Plants at least are very sensitive to that.

 

The only other thing I could think of that might cause it would be temperature.  I don't use heaters in any of my caridinia tanks, so they're always at room temperature.   I live in Maine (USA) so room temperature can be around 67 in the winter, whereas in the summer it climbs to the upper 70s as I don't use air conditioning in the room that I keep the tanks.  Maybe they sense the gradual temperature change?  Do you use heaters in your tanks?

 

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@nicpapa Interesting observation. However, to state something like this, there has to be some connection/speculation (e.g. why does barometric pressure affect shrimp breeding?). But an observation is an observation. You are not making up something. So this might be something indeed. Theoretically speaking, oxygen solubility is better in cold water compare to warm water. However, shrimps activity are lower in cold water than warm water. Taking temperature out of the screen (assuming that temperature is indeed CONSTANT = does not change EVER), there might be some outside factor that affects shrimps' breeding in winter. That factor, I do not know. However, I have not seen any papers that explains this phenomena. 

 

@TheGlassBox I have seen papers that supports the effect of photoperiod. I would be very interested in learning form the results of your experiment. BTW, please perform a control sample so that you can compare your results.

 

There are other parameters that affects shrimp breeding. And I believe that everyone is doing what they can to achieve optimum breeding. Constant temperature is difficult to achieve but not complicated. If you have a temperature controlled room, this is very easy (e.g. basement, etc). But for most of us, air conditioning is the closest thing that we got. But year around, house temperature varies depending on the temperature outside. One can get a chiller, but this does not mean that your temperature will be constant due to temperature fluctuations. However, you can minimize the fluctuation by insulation. That said, there will be less temperature fluctuation in winter compare to summer. There are other factors that also affects temperature such as lighting and filtration.

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22 hours ago, TheGlassBox said:

I don't think an air conditioner would do it as they pull air from inside a room, cool it and push the same air back into the same room.  They don't take air from the outdoors.  So there would be no net change.  It would need to be something like an exhaust fan, but in reverse so it took air from outdoors and pumped it in.

 

Well, now you've got the Science Nerd in me going LOL!

 

I've always wanted to try the light experiment, just never got the time...  It would take probably 2 months at least.  If you try it, try running the lights for only say, 5 hours for a month.  Then increase it to maybe 10 or 12 hours.  That kind of thing will trigger plants to bloom or fruit.  And if there's a window in the room, pull the shade and close the curtains to make it as dark as possible when the lights are out.  If there's too much light leaking in, it might be enough to trigger a normal day cycle for them, as opposed to the artificial one you're trying to create.  And it doesn't take much.  Plants at least are very sensitive to that.

 

The only other thing I could think of that might cause it would be temperature.  I don't use heaters in any of my caridinia tanks, so they're always at room temperature.   I live in Maine (USA) so room temperature can be around 67 in the winter, whereas in the summer it climbs to the upper 70s as I don't use air conditioning in the room that I keep the tanks.  Maybe they sense the gradual temperature change?  Do you use heaters in your tanks?

 

 

I change my lights to 13 hours from 8 hours i had them

I know about the plants how react to temp and lights.

If we talk about heat at March April when they became to breed  , temp dont play  a role, its the same temp when you use heater.. :)

I will try to make a comparison with day lights when they stop breed and when they breed.

Your temp is fine with shrimps, my shrimp room , because i dont leave there goes to 13-14c  ~ 55F

I cant heat all the tanks, its 20 tanks , i  use heaters to 10 tanks keeping temp 21-22c and sullawesi 26c.

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, AquaticShrimpNoob said:

@nicpapa Interesting observation. However, to state something like this, there has to be some connection/speculation (e.g. why does barometric pressure affect shrimp breeding?). But an observation is an observation. You are not making up something. So this might be something indeed. Theoretically speaking, oxygen solubility is better in cold water compare to warm water. However, shrimps activity are lower in cold water than warm water. Taking temperature out of the screen (assuming that temperature is indeed CONSTANT = does not change EVER), there might be some outside factor that affects shrimps' breeding in winter. That factor, I do not know. However, I have not seen any papers that explains this phenomena. 

 

@TheGlassBox I have seen papers that supports the effect of photoperiod. I would be very interested in learning form the results of your experiment. BTW, please perform a control sample so that you can compare your results.

 

There are other parameters that affects shrimp breeding. And I believe that everyone is doing what they can to achieve optimum breeding. Constant temperature is difficult to achieve but not complicated. If you have a temperature controlled room, this is very easy (e.g. basement, etc). But for most of us, air conditioning is the closest thing that we got. But year around, house temperature varies depending on the temperature outside. One can get a chiller, but this does not mean that your temperature will be constant due to temperature fluctuations. However, you can minimize the fluctuation by insulation. That said, there will be less temperature fluctuation in winter compare to summer. There are other factors that also affects temperature such as lighting and filtration.

 

I dont know if barometric pressure  plays role but its play for some  fish, and i read it lot in the forums, also in a paper for sea shrimps , culture in ponds , i read they measure for 6 months all the data , also have data for barometric pressure.

Oxygen is beter in cold water than hot water that is true.

Temps affect shrimp grow slower and leave more.

Yes that i was thinking , temp fluctuation is more in summer .

Maybe they dont like stable temp?   haha 😀

If they dont breed in winter why to use heaters?

 

I never loose a shrimp from cold water, i made a test in the previous year with crs.

Now also have tanks without heater and temp goes 13-14c in the waters.

Snowballs and neos breed in those temps not a lot but you can see pregrants srhimps.

Plants still grow but slower.

 

I made a small video to see activity in 14 c vs 22c . :)

Srhimps looks fine .

Cbs is without a heat, then crs tank have a heat to22c and the other tanks crs dont have a heat, and in this tank i saw pregrand , also in tanks without heaters had babies.

Sorry for the quality of the video its from mine phone.

 

 

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Its a very interesting topic. I normally experience only a slow down in breeding and not a complete stop. Last year only 1 tank out of 12 stopped breeding completely. The others still bred but just not at the same rate as they do in spring and summer, but its not a huge breeding decline. This winter we have much milder temps then last year. out of 12 tanks, everyone is breeding except for 1 tank. I keep my home at 70 degrees and lights are on for 12 hours a day. I think light cycle may play a part because I intentionally leave my lights on longer to try to mimic spring/summer daylight hours and I do notice a difference. There is nothing scientific to substantiate any of this but I am happy with my winter breeding, I have as many berried females right now as I do in spring (Neos and Caridina).

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59 minutes ago, Shrimp Life said:

Its a very interesting topic. I normally experience only a slow down in breeding and not a complete stop. Last year only 1 tank out of 12 stopped breeding completely. The others still bred but just not at the same rate as they do in spring and summer, but its not a huge breeding decline. This winter we have much milder temps then last year. out of 12 tanks, everyone is breeding except for 1 tank. I keep my home at 70 degrees and lights are on for 12 hours a day. I think light cycle may play a part because I intentionally leave my lights on longer to try to mimic spring/summer daylight hours and I do notice a difference. There is nothing scientific to substantiate any of this but I am happy with my winter breeding, I have as many berried females right now as I do in spring (Neos and Caridina).

 

Hello there .

Can you say how many hours of  daylight your place have  this period, and when your  lights  time on and off routine?

Mine temp is higher than yours. :)

Maybe something in light period ?

Do you have a windows in you shrimp room?

Aslo do you know your barometric pressure of the year, like i wrote it above?

Crazy qusetions i know. :)

 

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I have 1 window but I think its helping that I am leaving the lights on longer, mimicking the long daylight of spring and summer.  Normally our sun rises at 8am and sets at 430pm in winter. I have the lights on from 8am-8pm . The barometric pressure today is 1016.2 in my town

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

@nicpapa This is indeed very interesting topic. I have seen many people talk about slow breeding or no breeding in winter or cold season. Most people hypothesized that this is caused by atmospheric pressure change in cold season. I do read publish papers too (high five!!). In fact, most of my info about shrimps are from these. I stopped inquiring from other shrimpers due to inconsistency and lack of fundamentals. Most of the things that catch my attention, I do take with a grain of salt and then inquire principles and understanding first before I take them seriously. My advice, however, is be careful on interpreting publish papers. As you have mentioned, you got these information from se shrimps and culture in ponds. See here that volume and depth are not identical to regular aquariums. But I am aware that these small change in atmospheric pressure can affect dwarf shrimps due to their biology and size.

 

To be fair, I only have one shrimp tank besides my other freshwater aquarium (for now, I really want to focus on just one shrimp tank). I don't have much observations as most of you with multiple tanks do so I can't speculate more than this. However, I am very thankful for these observations because I can use them on my own personal shrimp care. I am also happy @nicpapa and @Shrimp Life for producing such speculations using combinations of observations and principles/fundamentals.

 

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There are very few published papers on neo/caridina breeding. One of the ones that I've ran across mentions the affects of temperature and very little on photo period, being it was at a constant 12/12 schedule throughout the entire study. This was for the RCS too, btw. Crystals and other bee shrimp have even fewer studies and ALOT of speculation printed on the web. We do know that metabolism and growth slow down in cooler waters as does reproduction. So temperature is a big one. Not so sure about light myself being as I keep a shorter photo period than most at 7-8 hours of light. I have shrimp berried right now but these are hybrids (tibees and galaxy pintos). My PRL's aren't doing anything in these unheated tanks. Temps are between 62-65° F for the last month or so. I'm chalking it up to temperature. What these temperature thresholds are for each given species/sub-species is hard to say but I'd be willing to guess at 68°, my PRLs will be getting busy. :D 

 

 It may very well be speculation to say the sex ratio of offspring is also affected by temperature for these particular species. From a logical standpoint, it makes sense that there will be higher percentages of female offspring in cooler water where food sources are abundant in early Spring but this is with wild shrimp, not ornamental shrimp that have been selectively bred for many generations. However, there are reports on the internet of breeders seeing a higher percentage of female offspring during winter breedings. Hardly concrete evidence but worth observing in our own tanks. 

 

 

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My fire red shrimp (neos) had slowed down (but not stopped) their breeding in winter. I have had success in speeding it up again by doing a tiny water change almost every day. I change 1 gallon on my 20 gallon. I aim for every day but realistically it ends up being 5 days per week that I do the tiny water change.

 

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  • 1 month later...

Some results... :)

Shrimps start breeding in some tanks.

I didnt change anything of my routines and nothing changes in lights and temps.

The fisrt tank was tangerine tigers, there are an explosiong with female caring eggs.

Then taiwan pinto crs and other caridina .

I dont have any problem with neocaridina tanks.

The weird is that crs  and cbs shrimps start breeding in the same time.

Crs is with 22c and cbs in room temp about 16c, also in another crs tank with room temp start the same period.

So am i crazy , what parameter iam missing?

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I just wanted to update on my shrimp room breeding this winter, since I last posted we have since had some severe cold weather in late January and many of my tanks have slowed down or completely stopped breeding for the last month. Prior to January I did not experience severe cold weather as we have in the last 5-6 weeks. I suspect the sudden swing in temps has something to do with it. My normally prolific tanks are slow. Since it is already March I am anticipating that they should get going again by April (fingers crossed)  Will update when they get going again!

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I don't know I'm a noob but my neos are saddling and berrying.  I'm expecting 2 of them to hatch within the next week.   And my caridina just gave birth about 10 days ago.    If I had to make a wild guess I would have thought temperature and sunlight hour change would be the trigger for spawning before barometric pressure. Then again that's just a wild guess.  Forgive me but I'm not understanding how barometric pressure affects underwater pressure. Can anyone break it down for me?

 

Also I watched your video on the topic last night @Shrimp Life 👍

 

 

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On 3/3/2019 at 5:57 PM, Shrimp Life said:

I just wanted to update on my shrimp room breeding this winter, since I last posted we have since had some severe cold weather in late January and many of my tanks have slowed down or completely stopped breeding for the last month. Prior to January I did not experience severe cold weather as we have in the last 5-6 weeks. I suspect the sudden swing in temps has something to do with it. My normally prolific tanks are slow. Since it is already March I am anticipating that they should get going again by April (fingers crossed)  Will update when they get going again!

I have a heater vs non heater and both tanks are still the same. Breeding slow this winter.

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On 3/5/2019 at 2:14 PM, ILikeAsianBooty said:

I have a heater vs non heater and both tanks are still the same. Breeding slow this winter.

For my shrimp, I really don't think its about using a heater,  I don't use heaters, I temperature control my shrimp room,which is ambient temperature and same temps as the other months when they breed all the time

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On 3/4/2019 at 6:28 PM, TigerBarb1017 said:

I don't know I'm a noob but my neos are saddling and berrying.  I'm expecting 2 of them to hatch within the next week.   And my caridina just gave birth about 10 days ago.    If I had to make a wild guess I would have thought temperature and sunlight hour change would be the trigger for spawning before barometric pressure. Then again that's just a wild guess.  Forgive me but I'm not understanding how barometric pressure affects underwater pressure. Can anyone break it down for me?

 

Also I watched your video on the topic last night @Shrimp Life 👍

 

 

I think the breeding slows down for Caridina shrimp way more then Neocaridina shrimp. Just as animals have breeding seasons and certain things trigger them to breed or not breed, it seems to be a similar situation with shrimp. 

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A video that confirm that temp dont playes role... :)

cbs tanks is room temp without heat, about 16-17,c  crs is with a heater at 21-22c...

Both tanks start in the same time of yeart breeding.. 

I take a video  i catch them both tank male dancing. :)

 

 

 

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