pucksr

I've seen raccoon tiger shrimp pop up a few times. People generally note that they won't interbreed https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7142168/#!po=14.7059 Is this the same species? Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

So, polygenic traits are more common. Neocaridinia are almost definitely polygenic CBS/CRS color doesnt seem to be polygenic. When you mix black/red shrimp, some will be black and some will be red. It seems to follow a single gene. I'm a little confused on tiger shrimp vs bee shrimp. Bee and tiger shrimp are the same species. Tiger shrimp are traditionally black, but they seem to use a different gene for black coloration. Because if you breed a black tiger with a red bee shrimp, you get crazy patterns. None of the offspring are red tigers. Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

The last time this was discussed, this is how I basically understood it: Almost all of the domestic Bee/Tiger/Tangerine Tiger shrimp are hybrids at this point. Calling a domestic Bee Shrimp a C. cantonensis is a bit like calling a chicken a "junglefowl". Some genetic analysis was performed and basically, all of the Bee/Tiger/Tangerine Tiger are primarily C. cantonensis. This doesn't mean that they are entirely C. cantonensis, they are hybrids. It is just that the "base genetic stock" for all of the domestic strains of Bee/Tiger/Etc is C cantonensis. Wild-type C. cantonensis The mother of all of these shrimp. Honestly doesn't look much like a bee or a tiger. It looks closer to a "tangerine tiger". The physical characteristics of this shrimp seem to be the most prevalent in all of our domestic shrimp. This seems to be the domesticated shrimp that was originally developed and was then hybridized to produce all of our other pet shrimp Wild Bee Shrimp- C. logemanni These are a unique species in the wild. They look very similar to the domestic species, with a greater variation in coloration. However, our domestic species has the traits of C. cantonensis, so this was probably crossed into C. cantonensis for stability purposes Wild Tiger Shrimp-C. mariae These are a unique species in the wild. They look very similar to the domestic species, with a greater variation in coloration and striping density. The wild tiger was almost certainly crossed with a domestic bee to produce a new shrimp that looked like a tiger(had the tiger stripe genes), but the stable domestic genes of a bee shrimp Wild Tangerine Tiger- C. serrata(cancelled) This gets a bit hairy, but there does seem to be a unique wild species that this species was based on. However, all of the domestic species and their unique colors are just bee shrimp. Good luck going further. The coloration doesn't seem to originate from any wild-type, but the "whole body" coloration may have come from a gene expressed in the wild shrimp. " Super Tiger, Red Tiger", etc These are all just strains of the "tiger shrimp" line. How they develop them could be a bit of a mystery. As I said, the actual wild-type has a lot of variability in the coloration and striping. They may have grabbed a wild-type with the genes they wanted and bred it back into the strain OR they might have slowly bred them from the first domestic "tiger shrimp". Tangerine Tiger, Aura Blue, Tupfel Shrimp etc These are claimed to be another Caridinia species. They might have been, but the domestic ones are "bee shrimp". They do, however, show a different color variability which is more similar to the neocardinia(whole body color with wide-ranging hues and intensity), rather than stripes of varying thickness/color but nearly-constant opacity(such as that found in bee/tigers). Paracaridina These all seem to be different species with no cross-breeding, though there are quite a few of them out there. Even if they are called "blue bees", it was just an unfortunate accident in naming Variability in water conditions amongst tangerine tiger/bee/tiger/etc Given that these are all essentially the same shrimp, this seems to be based much more on where they were bred. German lines seem to prefer harder water lines while Asian breeder-developed shrimp prefer soft water. This is my own speculation and not based on any actual information, but it makes sense. German- Tangerine Tiger/Tiger Asian - Bee/Tiger http://easyshrimp.blogspot.com/p/caridina-cantonensis.html Serious Fish Article

1) She would have all kinds of different "grades". Why? Because she would be rapidly pushing her shrimp population back to "wild-type". 2) The idea that they bred "true" isn't totally surprising. The colors you mentioned are NOT going to immediately breed out in 1 generation. Neos are different colors because they have a few pigmentation dots of different colors which can express in different intensities to create the entire rainbow(think of how your TV creates all of the colors from 3 colors). If memory serves, the 3 colors on neo shrimp are red, yellow, blue(primary colors). If she started with an all-blue shrimp, an all-yellow shrimp, and an all-red shrimp, then they wouldn't necessarily turn wild RIGHT AWAY. In the first generation, she would get some reds, oranges/browns, blues, etc. It would be a lot like crossing sheep. Sheep cross-breeding experiments In the first few generations, everything will look fine. Maybe you will get a neat orange. In 2-3 years? The dominant genes will take over. You will have "wild-type" shrimp. The mostly look brown. So, she might not be lying. However, goldfish are a carp. Carp actually do eat shrimp. However, if she has that much moss, maybe they were hiding successfully? I don't know. She also may have added the goldfish very recently. As they would most likely eaten the younger shrimp, she wouldn't notice the decline in population right away. As far as the shrimp breeding? We all know it can happen, I just wouldn't take any shrimp from her(as they won't breed true) and I know for a fact that her shrimp will all be wild-type in 4 years.

I am somewhat interested as well in the C. Texanus. However, knowing how frequently they breed domestic crayfish together, I am not sure about the "C. Texanus". As I have discovered with the genetics on shrimp, things get tricky. The C. Texanus has a relative(C. Ninae, also about the same size) that is found very close to the home range of C. Texanus, but has generally lighter coloration. I have also seen several people refer to them as "Mexican" still, which may imply that they crossed them with CPOs. I am curious if anyone knows anything about the blue variety of C. Texanus. I have generally heard good things.

How do you catch? Trap or net?

@Psyklon Good luck. I used to live near where Cambarellus ninae lived(Rockport, TX). Cambarellus texanus was endemic too. I had a really difficult time finding any specimens. They typically live in areas with other crayfish and dwarf species are very good at hiding and are very shy. However, mollies and other live-bearers are RIDICULOUSLY easy to find. I was surprised how many different neat fish I could keep in my tank that I could catch locally.

Crayfish? As North Americans we live in the crayfish capital of the world. Do you plan to capture wild or purchase from the store?

Alright, throwing this one out to the wisdom of the crowd. Someone sent me down a rabbit hole recently when they pointed out that some research indicated that the Tangerine Tiger was actually not a C. serrata but rather a C. cantonensis. Despite the "red Tupfel" shrimp being a C. serrata, the Tangerine Tigers from the store all appear to be C. cantonensis http://easyshrimp.blogspot.com/p/caridina-cantonensis.html First, in 2005, there was a lot of destruction of Caridina serrata(I do have access to this paper). C. cantonensis was emphasized. Then in 2014, there was a new proposed revision of Caridina cantonensis(sorry, I don't have access to that paper)Serious Fish Article Here is what I have been able to figure out. There seems to be a few species of freshwater shrimp in the Hong Kong to Vietnam area. This is where most of our domestic strains emerge. Tiger Shrimp = Caridina mariae "Bee Shrimp"= Caridina logemanni Common domestic shrimp = Caridina cantonensis (which honestly looks more like a tangerine tiger shrimp without color than anything else) It seems, from what I can read, that these were all hybridized to produce our pet shrimp. The striping of C. mariae(tiger stripes) was bred into C. cantonensis to produce our tiger shrimp. The large spots of C. logemanni was bred into C. cantonensis to produce our bee shrimp. This is common in breeding programs. Good article from fish breeder on cross-breeding to introduce dominant genes-Goliad Fish Farm Do I basically understand the current state of affairs? So, our Bee Shrimp, Tiger Shrimp, and Tangerine Tigers are all just "C. Cantonensis". However, they had been hybridized. Is there any further research I am missing? Did I misunderstand something

Seeing if anyone is selling these crayfish. They seemed quite popular for awhile, then disappeared. From everything I heard, they were prolific breeders and survived quite well in shrimp tanks.

I bought some off of ebay. Only about 3 survived a year. They do not reproduce. I never say one berry. Also, the ones off ebay didn't resemble normal pictures of babaulti. Thinner tail sections, while the ones I have kept are typically thicker than cherry shrimp. I don't know if I received all mails, but it looks like there was sexual dimorphism. Not sure what I am saying. Maybe the females died and I only have males remaining and I have only seen pictures of females.

Wait, rabbit snails have gender? I always just assumed they were hermaphrodites like all of the other snails.

You are really dashing my dreams. I was hoping to buy some wild-type bee shrimp at Petco.

So, I went back. It looks like they merged two things. A picture of a bee shrimp and the label for a Amano(latin name matched) shrimp. I have no idea if they actually got in a different species of shrimp

Honestly, we need a shrimp keepers podcast Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk