Question on Shrimp Colorization

[Art by Stef*]

Hiya.

Have a question on breeding shrimp color.

(I am not even near selective breeding; just working on keeping them alive, but wondering on the future.)

 

I have Pumpkin Neos/Orange Sakuras. These are a variety of Cherry Shrimp, right?

And Yellow Neos, too?

 

How did they originate?

 

 

I'm assuming breeders seen yellows and orange cropping up in the regular cherry shrimp populous and then selectively bred them?

Eventually, doesn't the cherry revert to the wild coloration at some point? Or just cull, cull, cull?

After one breeds and breeds select pumpkins, when you want to add new blood, do you get more oranges to breed?

Or is it like mixing paint-add a little red or yellow to enhance the color?

If you bred a yellow to a red, can orange ones appear?

If your orange appears too yellow or colorless, is it safe to add red?

Is there a color chart somewhere on this?

 

What is the key to locking in color in Neos, is what I'm trying to say

 

-Stef*

[Soothing Shrimp]

Okay, here's some answers for ya. heh

 

Yepper, pumpkins/orange sakuras are a variety of cherry.   So are yellows.  Some say oranges came from yellows.  Some say from red.

 

"I'm assuming breeders seen yellows and orange cropping up in the regular cherry shrimp populous and then selectively bred them?"

 

Yepper.  Of course the original yellows and oranges are not as vivid as we have now.  It took selective breeding to bring out the best color so far.

 

"Eventually, doesn't the cherry revert to the wild coloration at some point? Or just cull, cull, cull?

 

Not necessarilly.  The very definition of a strain is to breed true...well...as true as shrimp can.  The occasional wild may be thrown, but this is where it gets tricky.  The wild color ends up taking over the selectively bred color if they breed together.  So you want to remove wilds so you don't have a tank of wild coloration.

 

If you don't care about the best grade of coloration you have- no need to cull.  Yellows are yellows, oranges are orange, blues are...well you get the idea.  To get the best grade of color (most intense, best pigmented, etc), you will need to cull.  Coloration has a tendancy to gravitate to the lowest grade when left to mix randomly.

 

"After one breeds and breeds select pumpkins, when you want to add new blood, do you get more oranges to breed?"

 

Thanksfully research has shown that aquatic inverts are not like mammals.  New blood does not have to be added often.  One study showed thatafter 12 generations of inbreeding, there was still plenty of variance and it had no ill effects.  You could literally breed the same stock of shrimp for years without any ill effect.

 

When you do decide to add new blood, you add another of the same color.  Or parallel breed or whatever.

 

"Or is it like mixing paint-add a little red or yellow to enhance the color?"

 

I wish it was that simple.  It would make out lives as hobbyists soooooo much easier!  Unfortunately, if you mix two different colors- it often results in wild coloration.

 

"If you bred a yellow to a red, can orange ones appear?"

 

In a perfect world it would, however you would most likely wind up with wilds.

 

I *have* heard of people crossing yellow and orange to get different hues in the babies.

 

"If your orange appears too yellow or colorless, is it safe to add red?"

 

Experiment and have fun! heh  We all learn from experiments.

 

"Is there a color chart somewhere on this?  What is the key to locking in color in Neos, is what I'm trying to say"

 

That is the million dollar question.  Neo genetics are messy.  Punnet squares refuse to play nice with them.  IMO they are full of incomplete recessives and co-dominants.  While one color may be "made,"  the same color may be made a different way with different genes on different loci.  There's no proof of this, however from my experience thus far it is the only thing that makes sense.

 

I've searched for answers for a couple years now on neo genetics and it seems as if very few if any have come forth with any research on color genetics in cherry shrimp.  A person could possibly make a HUGE name for themselves by doing a doctoral on it, or even a life study.

 

At this point we don't even know enough to say if there is only 1 way to combine the genetics to make blue tissue (for example,) or a multitude of ways to do it.

 

Allow me to do a further example from my own breeding experiences.

 

99.9% of people who try yellow x red = wild coloration

 

Simple right?

 

When my yellows were so sensative hundreds of shrimp died if I looked at them funny, I had about 3 or 4 left.  For a year they would not breed.  Out of desperation I added some fire reds and they crossed.  The babies of this cross wound up either yellow or red.  I culled the reds and worked with them until they were stable and eventually made my own very hardy yellow strain.

 

The point of the story is that this (by experience of others who have tried the cross,) should not have happened.  Nobody else has had this experience.  This led me to the conclusion that not all color yellow (or red) are on the same location.  Otherwise I would have had the same results as countless others.

 

Is it proof?  Nope.  However it shows how complicated shrimp genetics can be.

[Art by Stef*]

Thank you so much for answering my questions!

 I kinda DO care about the best colorization possible, especially after all the hard work people have put into these shrimp.

If I get a surplus, then I would consider out-crossing, just because it's fun!

Right now, had a mini-crisis going on with a filter than failed, and concentrating on keeping them alive.

Will be posting that issue soon.

But thanks again for addressing my curiosity.

It seems shrimp follow the beat of their own drummers, unlike fish, and very intriguing.

-Stef*

[Soothing Shrimp]

If you and darkcobra want to try to figure out genetics of the neos, by all means do so- and start a thread so I and others can follow along!

 

You would have the added benifit of hobbyists "playing along" and posting their results as well to give you more data.

[octanejunkie]

Nice write-up, SS

Sent while on the go...

[Soothing Shrimp]

Thanks octane.   One of the nice things about forums is sharing experiences and things you have run across.