maylee Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I'm sure you guys can help pinpoint the cause. Over the past two days, I've had five of my neos die. The rest are looking slow and lethargic. Two major things happened. 1) I introduced some OEBT to the tank and it's been less than a week since they've been in there 2) I'm trying a new RO water source (Walmart machine) The OEBT are looking fine. No deaths. My neos, who have been in there for a couple of months, are dying. I'm trying RO from the walmart machine. I did a couple basic tests before using it, only checking TDS, pH, and gH. It came out as 4 TDS, 6.0 pH, 1 gH I've only used this water for topping off. I'm thinking it's because of a big drop in pH. Assuming I did the tests and was reading them correctly, my pH was at 7.8 about a week and a half ago. I tested it last night, it was at 7.0. The only issue is that I'm not 100% confident if it's a drop in pH is because I've always had a hard time reading the tests correctly. Last night, I used both an API pH test and a Sera test this time. Both were pointing to a 7.0 pH, it's a good chance it's correct. Do you guys think there's something bad in the new RO water or is it the cause of the drop in pH? Would that somehow also explain why the OEBT seem to be doing fine but the neos are dying? My other water parameters Temp - 72 pH - 7.0 TDS - 210 gH - 8 kH - 2 I think my kH dropped from 3 to 2 Edwardnah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfishlady Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 most likely you are right about the ph. My neos are in ph of 7.6. How did you introduce the new water? Did you drip acclimate or just pour it in as top off water? Neos and most tigers don't require the lower ph maylee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maylee Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I almost always drip new water into the tank. Except I did pour in a small amount of it a couple of nights ago. It was about a shot glass worth. I had the water in a little cup so I could use my TDS meter with it. I didn't stop to think whether RO water would affect the pH. And if it doesn't, then I don't know what caused the drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citycode01 Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Did you check you other parameters like ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? I'm sure you did and they fine. How big is your tank and how good is filtration? A few weeks ago I added a bag of peat in the tank with my Neos and mischlings and I had PH drop from 7 to 5.8 in a three days, I had only one dead mischling all my cherryes were fine. It should be something very bad like ammonia or cupper or chemicals to lose so many neos in such a short period of time, they are really hard not like Caridinia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyeGuy411 Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 By topping off with RO you should not be changing the pH since your hardness is unaffected. dr0p 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maylee Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Did you check you other parameters like ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? I'm sure you did and they fine. How big is your tank and how good is filtration? A few weeks ago I added a bag of peat in the tank with my Neos and mischlings and I had PH drop from 7 to 5.8 in a three days, I had only one dead mischling all my cherryes were fine. It should be something very bad like ammonia or cupper or chemicals to lose so many neos in such a short period of time, they are really hard not like Caridinia. Yes, I did. I forgot to mention those tests but I got zeros across the board with ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. It's just a 5 gallon and I've got both a dual sponge filter and a small HOB. I think the pH change is the likely problem. Because if it was something really bad in the water then shouldn't all the shrimp be affected? The OEBT don't seem to be affected at all. and since they're still fairly new to the tank, maybe they adjusted to the pH change easier than the neos did who have been in the tank for a lot longer. Just a guess though. No idea how the pH changed so drastically though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35ppt Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I almost always drip new water into the tank. Except I did pour in a small amount of it a couple of nights ago. It was about a shot glass worth. I had the water in a little cup so I could use my TDS meter with it. I didn't stop to think whether RO water would affect the pH. And if it doesn't, then I don't know what caused the drop. If I understand what you said, you tested tds in the glass then poured it into tank? I doubt this is your issue, but in future, just discard that water after you dip the pen into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiumanfu Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 If I understand what you said, you tested tds in the glass then poured it into tank? I doubt this is your issue, but in future, just discard that water after you dip the pen into it. Why? I dip my pH and TDS meters directly into the tank. Have been doing that for years without issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maylee Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 If I understand what you said, you tested tds in the glass then poured it into tank? I doubt this is your issue, but in future, just discard that water after you dip the pen into it. Yeah, I did do that. Not immediately though. It was probably a couple of hours afterwards. I saw I still had some of the water left in the cup and I poured it into the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35ppt Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Why? I dip my pH and TDS meters directly into the tank. Have been doing that for years without issue. Just general good 'lab' procedure, to avoid contamination/cross contamination. Again, probably not an issue in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citycode01 Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Yes, I did. I forgot to mention those tests but I got zeros across the board with ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. It's just a 5 gallon and I've got both a dual sponge filter and a small HOB. I think the pH change is the likely problem. Because if it was something really bad in the water then shouldn't all the shrimp be affected? The OEBT don't seem to be affected at all. and since they're still fairly new to the tank, maybe they adjusted to the pH change easier than the neos did who have been in the tank for a lot longer. Just a guess though. No idea how the pH changed so drastically though. I can't believe that ph change can kill so many shrimps. Maybe I've got different stronger neos but quite large community of them gone through a lot of changes when I messed a lot with the tank. In the beginning it was sand substrate then I've changed it to active substrate bit by bit 4 times when I did WC with all shrimps in the tank because I decided to add bee shrimps. Ph of cause dropped quite a lot and no neos were dead. Then for some reason ph gone up and I decided to add peat but added too much and ph dropped from 7 to 5.8 in 3 days again no one die. The population is always growing I've sold over 400 on eBay and they never end. I didn't have much luck with cardinal though...maybe I'm lucky with them all tanks are different. Just think about - when you buying shrimps from the seller who keep them lets say in ph 8 and you have ph 7 in you tank and you climatise them for two hours, that's mean ph changing very quickly within two hours from 8 to 7 but they surviving, you not loosing 5 shrimps because of that. I'm keeping them in ph 6.4 at this moment and selling them to the guys who only starting and never had shrimps before. They using tap water with ph 8 and no one yet (touch the wood) complaining about dead shrimps. maylee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maylee Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 :/ It's all I have to go on at the moment. I'm going to stop using this Walmart RO for the time being. All I was seeing from their behavior before death is they seemed lethargic and un-coordinated. Like trying to climb up a piece of moss or something and just falling off. bleh The OEBT, on the other hand, are just zipping along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citycode01 Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Why don't you buy your own ro unit? I think you can get the cheapest one for $50-60 or so, and then you will be know that your water is spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maylee Posted May 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 I went back to the store I was getting my RO water from previously. This is what I got from testing it. TDS - 27 pH - 6.8 gH - 1 kH - 2 Looks like they don't do a lot of maintenance on that machine huh? The Walmart machine tested a lot better but I got deaths from using it (as far as I know). I was looking at RO units on amazon. It's one option I could go. I just wasn't sure what I was looking for. I saw one called the Aquatic Life RO buddie. It didn't include a DI chamber but it looked adequate? Toads74 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f.lloyd.taylor Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 I think it was the GH shift. Neos don't like it below 4 and it sounds like your parameters for GH shifted heavily toward 1. Neos can take a large pH range; 6.0 is fine for a neo. GH less than 4 is definitely not a happy place for your neos.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyeGuy411 Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Umm neos are fine in gH of 3 kH 0 and pH 5.6 so that is not it. In these conditions they wont breed but are very healthy and active. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f.lloyd.taylor Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Oh cool RyeGuy411. Maybe my memory is going way sooner than I thought. LOL. For some reason I thought neos needed higher than 4 GH. Good to learn, I'll write it down this time. What do you think is causing them to die? I definitely want to learn so it doesn't happen to mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 When I had my neos in less than gh 5, they were dying off. Now I keep mine 6-9 gh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35ppt Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 I went back to the store I was getting my RO water from previously. This is what I got from testing it. TDS - 27 pH - 6.8 gH - 1 kH - 2 Looks like they don't do a lot of maintenance on that machine huh? The Walmart machine tested a lot better but I got deaths from using it (as far as I know). I was looking at RO units on amazon. It's one option I could go. I just wasn't sure what I was looking for. I saw one called the Aquatic Life RO buddie. It didn't include a DI chamber but it looked adequate? There is a site for RO units that shrimpers often suggest, but I cannot recall the name of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 purewaterclub.com has some inexpensive RO units. I use it myself. Others will pop up with other links for ya. 35ppt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35ppt Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 yes, that is the one I recall being mentioned a lot. thanks. Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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