Random Adult Shrimp Deaths Neo's Tigers

[gillznglass]

If anyone may have an idea of what is going on I would appreciate the help.

 

Today's water parameters tested 9/22/15 at 10 am

 

Ammonia 0

Nitrite 0

Nitrate 0

PH 7.4

Temp 76

GH 8

KH 3

TDS 198

Copper 0

 

These parameters have tested that way for 2 months.

 

Other water parameters

 

10% Well water, 90% RO.  Well water for KH.

RO system 150gpd at 2 TDS

RO remineralized with Seachem equilibrium

 

System parameters

 

8 20 longs on sump system with a slow trickle refugium.

Total water volume 210 gallons

Water changes 20 gallons per week on average

6000K 40 watt full spectrum 4' florescent lights 10" above the surface one light per 2 20 Longs

 

Filter media used

 

Kaldness K1 moving bed media fluidized with 2 air pumps

2 stage Filter Floss

Seachem Purigen

Many Live plants

20 Long Refugium packed with live plants with Finnex Ray 2 Lighting, Flow set at apx. 20 gallons per hour

 

 

Today added 250ml Seachem matrix carbon

 

What is happening

 

I have had some random shrimp deaths due to what I believed were due to hydra in the tank.  I was also concerned hydra would harm the fry, performed the treatment described here.  I have seen copepods and a few detritus worms in the system.

 

http://www.planetinverts.com/killing_planaria_and_hydra.html

 

I calculated the dosage of safe guard dewormer which is what a veterinarian recommended I use.  It is 25 gram paste, at 10%, 100 mg/g.  I used 1/4 teaspoon in the whole set up @ approximately 2.1cc. or .1 gram per gallon as recommended if my math is right.  It may not be but the specs of the med are above.

 

I waited 1 1/2 days.  The hydra were dead.  Then performed a 90 gallon water change to help rid the system of the meds.  The Purigen was removed during the treatment and returned after the water change.  I just got some Seachem matrix carbon and added it to the sump this morning since carbon is effective at removing meds.

 

After I used dewomer, which was about 5 days ago, I have lost at least 4 adult shrimp 2 bloody Mary, 2 tangerine tigers, that I can recall. It appears to me is most of the adult population is not visible in the tanks.  They appear to be gone.  So could this be a result of miscalculating dosage?

 

I have included my water parameters for the random deaths occurring before the treatment of the med, just in case they may not be ideal for what I have.  They do breed quite well, but I have been losing fry to my filter system which is currently being addressed.  Refer to this thread if you want to know what that is all about.  There may be some information there worth noting.  We feed shrimp king food every other day.

 

Here is a photo of the shrimp that i found dead this morning.

 

 

Here is a photo of what appears to be healthy shrimp taking this morning as well.

 

 

I have not seen any light colored shrimp or ones that look unhealthy.  They just die for what reason I can not speculate.  They also molt well.  I have only lost one I could figure due to a bad molt before I adjusted to the water parameters with RO remineralization.  Was shooting for around 200 tds and 2 KH for PH stability.

 

2 days ago I added 4 level scoops of Bacter AE to the sump to up the bio film. (Bacter AE is new to the system and is the first time it has been used) I added some Friz Zyme 7 to make sure the nitrosomonas and nitrobacter were in check, just in case the fenbendazole had any effect on the BB.  I know it is unusual to have 0 Nitrates but I assure you the system was fully cycled with the fish less cycle method and Friz zyme 7, long before the introduction of livestock.  All I can say here is K1, live plants, and purigen,  really do the job.  Nitrates even test 0 with no water changes for 2 weeks.

 

If there is any more information I can provide I have detailed logs of water parameters, shrimp deaths, fry born and many other notes and dates for each tank.  We have Neo's, OEBT's, and other tigers all in the same system.  As far as the well water is concerned, it has not been tested for anything other than ammonia 0, nitrates 5 to 20ppm on random tests, nitrite 0 and PH fluctuations from 7.4 to 8.9, affected by rainwater I suppose.  We have not had it tested for pathogens but we do drink it, and it is very clear even though it is liquid rock.  The TDS of the well water is 321 as of today, but I have seen it higher.  On rare occasion I will gravel vac a tank that may need it, but water changes are performed by opening a drain valve in the system and pumping water in from a 110 gallon water tank where the well water is mixed with RO, and the equilibrium is added and mixed.  I mix the equilibrium recirculating the water with a 1 HP transfer pump shortly before I do water changes. The pump is plumed to both recirculate the water back to the water tank and send water to the aquariums.  The equilibrium is mixed in a shaker cup with RO water before pouring it into the reserve system.  I have a power head with an air pump circulating the water at all times and heaters to bring the water temp to 77 degrees so there will be no temperature shocks when doing water changes.  I use this tank for all the aquariums I have some of which have a number of very healthy fish.

 

If anyone has any ideas on what I may be doing wrong please chime in. 

 

Thanks much,

 

Gillz

[JamesHe]

Seachem equilibrium is not designed for shrimp.

 

You can just use tap water instead if you keep neos.

Use Seachem prime to treat the water before use.

 

for RO + remineralizer solution.

Buy SaltyShrimp GH/KH+

[Jaykidding]

Joes aqua uses seachem equilibrium though. So I'm wondering he does

[JamesHe]

Joes aqua uses seachem equilibrium though. So I'm wondering he does

 

Seachem Equilibrium contains tons of Potassium (K) 23%. and very little Ca 8% and Mg 2%, which is bad thing for shrimp.

[chibikaie]

The plants need the potassium and will remove it from the water column, so that shouldn't be a concern ... can't speak to whether the Ca and Mg levels are adequate/appropriate though.

[Wygglz]

Thank you James, Jay, and Chibikaie. We were quite panicked for a bit, but it seems to be better now. I spoke with my vet who suggested "just dillute" and call me if that doesn't work. Gillz did 2 more 90 gallon water changes (1 ebery other day) and everyone seems to be returning to normal (fingers crossed).

[chibikaie]

^-^ the aquarium equivalent of "reboot and call me in the morning"

[Wygglz]

^-^ the aquarium equivalent of "reboot and call me in the morning"

Just read that to Gillz and chocolate milk almost came out his nose

[chibikaie]

Oh dear! Hope it wasn't painful.

Looking back at your original post, as the powder is 222 mg/gm fenbendazole, 0.1 gm per 10 gallons works out to 2.2 mg/gallon. Then the paste is 100 mg/gm fenbendazole. For a 210 gallon system, I would have dosed 466 mg or just under a teaspoon. So, interesting to note that the treatment eliminated the hydra at much less than the previously recommended dose, but slightly mystifying as to why it was harmful for shrimp. My guess is something that is in the paste and not the powder - the paste is usually given a sweet apple flavor to make giving it to horses easier. The powder is not flavored as far as I know. I've used the liquid cattle suspension instead of the paste with good results (I hate weighing out powder so that is a last resort) but I don't think it is as strongly flavored.

[Wygglz]

Great observation and tip, thank you! We were concerned about that as well and being a horse person, didn't even realize there was another type. We put off treating the system for quite a while just because of the fear of exactly what happened. Hopefully we'll never have to do it again,but now at least we are aware of another way.

[chibikaie]

Feel free to bounce dosage calculations at me in the future! I order and calculate drugs for a wide variety of animals.

[Wygglz]

Great to know thank you!