Soothing Shrimp Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Shipping stress can cause lots of things. Sometimes shrimp die from too much stress in shipping, sometimes ammonia(-ium) poisoning, sometimes by temperature change or rough handling, hell- sometimes they eat each other and some are magically missing when they arrive. I've heard/seen almost all of these things. However this next experience is a new one on me. I've sent out hundreds of shipments and I've never had this happen before: I recently sent out a package of shrimp from a tank that is healthy, and after three days they arrived with the recipient saying the water was cloudy and the shrimp were beginning to show signs of infection. (This is a well known person and a friend of mine, so I have faith that he is telling the truth.) At the same time, other packages from the same tank arrived to other destinations just fine. After us shrimpers began discussing back and forth what could have possibility happened, we came up with the theory that shrimp may be much like other animals and carry diseases that are kept in check all the time and not harmful when healthy- BUT put that same healthy animal under extreme stress, and the immune system becomes compromised and any disease may prevail and take over. It's the only shipment I've ever had like this, and it seems to make sense. I'm just fascinated that it could start causing problems in only three days. I learn new things all the time in shrimping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHe Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Add pitch of Purigen in each bag, it would help. Soothing Shrimp and svetilda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 This is another reason I think it's so important to properly quarantine new animals, even if they appear healthy. So few people seem to do this, and then we get thread after thread about diseases running rampant after new additions. Soothing Shrimp, colorfan and svetilda 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty703 Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I agree. I purchased some juvenile shrimp from a reputable breeder that I know. They arrived just fine and were all active in my tank, most of them were juveniles....however, after a few days I noticed that some of my older adult shrimps started dying. None of the new juveniles had any problems and I got very upset because the ones that were dying were my top fancy red titaibees that I had paid $$$s for and was losing them at an alarming rate of 2 or 3 per day (eventually all 16 of them died). I had done all the right things, quarantined them for a few days, acclimated them to the tank water etc, etc. No signs of bacteria or anything on them, they were healthy! I have NO answer for why this happened, but its the 2nd time for me and I am not laying any blame on the breeder as I know they were healthy shrimps, but something might have been transferred into my tank? I had no problems with the adult shrimps since originally getting them from the US, so why all of a sudden with the new arrivals did my other shrimps start to die? I would love to hear if anyone else has had this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 That kind of thing happens to most/all animals, I think. No reason to think that shrimp are exempt from the phenomenon. And yes, more reason to quarantine. Skipping quarantine is like playing Russian roulette. It doesn't mean that you don't trust your source, just that you are taking good precautions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wygglz Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I think that some colonies may actually be perfectly healthy, however, the shrimp can still be carriers of something that they have an aquired immunity to that others do not. In that case you can quarantine them, but if they are immune to what they carry, they will not show signs of infection. Then when they are added to a tank, they remain healthy, while those without immunity succumb. Make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillznglass Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Can not really speak for shrimp, but fish which I have more experience with can be perfectly healthy, then during times of stress can show illness quick. Wish shrimp were as easy to treat as fish are for most things. So far Fish TB and Dwarf Gourami disease are the only 2 that I know of do not have a cure. Fish TB is rare but we can get it from them with open cuts on our hands while working in the aquarium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpsmasher Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I deal with all type of suppliers; from big tropical fish transhippers who only deal with wholesalers to specially shrimp breeders and I can say shrimps are not much different to fish when it comes to the stress of being in transit. Unless it is a direct flight luck play a big part of it. When there are so many stops, temperatures and environment can vary greatly. Temperature regulators like Phrase 22 packs are great but pricey and I don't know any larger suppliers that use them due to the costs. In particular i found neos to be the worst when it comes to shipping; this summer have been particularly bad for shipping / receiving neo - i had some shipments where i also almost 90% of the new stock within the first week. The shipping process will take out some of them but rest could be disease related; I seen shrimps arrive healthy get wiped out by bacterial infection over a few weeks I think that some colonies may actually be perfectly healthy, however, the shrimp can still be carriers of something that they have an aquired immunity to that others do not. In that case you can quarantine them, but if they are immune to what they carry, they will not show signs of infection. Then when they are added to a tank, they remain healthy, while those without immunity succumb. Make sense? This is also very true; I try not to mix shrimps from different suppliers / sources in the same tank. While quarantine is good, i think it might be good to so a step further and treat all new shrimps; I been using hyrogen peroxide to treat bacterial infection and it seems help quite a bit. I am thinking of picking up those twinstar shrimp units to use for my quarantine process. Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I deal with all type of suppliers; from big tropical fish transhippers who only deal with wholesalers to specially shrimp breeders and I can say shrimps are not much different to fish when it comes to the stress of being in transit. Unless it is a direct flight luck play a big part of it. When there are so many stops, temperatures and environment can vary greatly. Temperature regulators like Phrase 22 packs are great but pricey and I don't know any larger suppliers that use them due to the costs. In particular i found neos to be the worst when it comes to shipping; this summer have been particularly bad for shipping / receiving neo - i had some shipments where i also almost 90% of the new stock within the first week. The shipping process will take out some of them but rest could be disease related; I seen shrimps arrive healthy get wiped out by bacterial infection over a few weeks This is also very true; I try not to mix shrimps from different suppliers / sources in the same tank. While quarantine is good, i think it might be good to so a step further and treat all new shrimps; I been using hyrogen peroxide to treat bacterial infection and it seems help quite a bit. I am thinking of picking up those twinstar shrimp units to use for my quarantine process. hi there, im curious as to how you use hydrogen peroxide to treat shrimps and bacterial infections... whats your dosage and treatment regimen if you dont mind sharing... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpsmasher Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 hi there, im curious as to how you use hydrogen peroxide to treat shrimps and bacterial infections... whats your dosage and treatment regimen if you dont mind sharing... thanks covered it here: http://www.shrimpspot.com/index.php?/topic/2491-treating-bacterial-infection-in-tiger-shrimp/?p=35732 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted October 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Makes sense since the twinstar makes H202. "I had no problems with the adult shrimps since originally getting them from the US, so why all of a sudden with the new arrivals did my other shrimps start to die? I would love to hear if anyone else has had this problem." Monty, sometimes shrimp are healthy and are used to their own bacteria in their own environment. When adding new healthy shrimp to a colony of healthy shrimp, there's always a small risk either strain will not be used to the new bacteria and be affected by it. In this case the easiest care is a water reset to remove most bacteria in the water and give time for bacteria to reproduce again slowly while the shrimp are growing accustomed to it. Sounds crazy since bacteria reproduces so fast, but it seems to work pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 covered it here: http://www.shrimpspot.com/index.php?/topic/2491-treating-bacterial-infection-in-tiger-shrimp/?p=35732 thanks for the link jumpsmasher... makes sense on the H202... but what i wonder is wont the h202 also kill off the beneficial bacteria in the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpsmasher Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 thanks for the link jumpsmasher... makes sense on the H202... but what i wonder is wont the h202 also kill off the beneficial bacteria in the tank? yes it would which is why you only dose it when you need to treat it. and dose "good" bacteria regularly after treatment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 yes it would which is why you only dose it when you need to treat it. and dose "good" bacteria regularly after treatment got it... will try that regimen for a week... once i have a problematic tank... i guess h202 dosing and paraguard treatment is pretty much similar eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpsmasher Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 got it... will try that regimen for a week... once i have a problematic tank... i guess h202 dosing and paraguard treatment is pretty much similar eh? yes but i seem to have better luck with H2O2 - just remember certain species (especially wild ones) like very clean water and fresh water so larger and regular water changes and things like cleaning the gravel helps too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 sounds good... thanks for the tip... anyone have any feedbacks on using UV sterilizers in their tanks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phreeflow Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I had no problems with the adult shrimps since originally getting them from the US, so why all of a sudden with the new arrivals did my other shrimps start to die? I would love to hear if anyone else has had this problem.I found your comment interesting about the adults shrimp being from the U.S. and wondered where your new shrimp were from.Back when I was heavily into angelfish, there was an epidemic where angels from Asia carried a virulent disease that was called the plague or angelfish aids. It was nearly impossible to treat and wiped out entire fish rooms here in the states. The Angels from Asia looked healthy but the domestic Angels had no immunity. Years later, we went through a similar epidemic with discus that had viral infections that caused massive die off, gaping sores, and so on. It was thought to be a herpes type virus and there was no cure. They were also from Asian breeders. Anyone purchasing imported discus and putting them with their domestic bred fish had problems. I wonder if your shrimp were imported from Asia. I try to only buy domestic bred shrimp but if I do buy imported shrimp, I house them in a separate tank. If not possible to keep them separate indefinitely, I quarantine for several months before mixing them. I had way too many issues when I used to breed discus and learned my lesson. Some discus and Angels were carriers for up to 6 months! This isn't to say Asian breeders are tricking anyone or keep their livestock in improper conditions. It's just that there are different diseases that livestock have built immunity to in their area and when you bring shrimp/fish clear across the Atlantic, chances are you are also bringing those foreign diseases as well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty703 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 No they weren't from Asia. They were locally bred close to where I live. I think that in many cases shrimps build up an immunity to bacteria and if kept in the one tank they are just fine, but once moved to another tank/water parameters being slightly different they may be susceptible to whatever lives in that tanks water column. It would only take one to get infected and then it goes through the tank, and any other shrimps not capable of fighting an infection would ultimately end up dying. Not all of us have additional tanks set up for quarantine. As we don't know enough about what causes these infections or how to treat them effectively, I think we will all at some point or other have to deal with this syndrome. It would be great if we could develop a tried and true way to help stave off this before we all lose more shrimps. Im sure many on here have purchased shrimps from other breeders and had some (not all) start to die off with no reason. We know the shrimps were from dedicated breeders who are very good with sending out only healthy shrimps but somehow we've encountered these problems, so we put it down to stress related to shipping......but what if its not? Lets all put our heads together to find a way to eliminate this problem.....there's just too many beautiful shrimps out there that we all would like to have in our tanks so we owe it to one another to find a cure to what is happening to our shrimps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jledermann Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I believe we are all on the right path, i described an issue i was having similar to early settlers and the native Americans, settlers brought sicknesses native Americans had no immunity to and it virtually whipped out whole tribes. Im pretty sure its what just happened to my shrimp seeing how only one species of shrimp, my original, is the only one taking heavy casualties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etcamire04 Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I believe we are all on the right path, i described an issue i was having similar to early settlers and the native Americans, settlers brought sicknesses native Americans had no immunity to and it virtually whipped out whole tribes. Im pretty sure its what just happened to my shrimp seeing how only one species of shrimp, my original, is the only one taking heavy casualties. Personally, I think this is part of the answer. When I was beginning, I remember reading an article about new shrimp acclimatations. It was telling that you should avoid mixing new shrimp to your actual one because of difference in the bacteria population. If I remember right, it was advising to mix water from one tank to another one or switch some decorations between the two population. Doing so, you could bring low number of bacteria to the other population. This way, shrimps could get use to those new bacteria. Basically, it's the same principle as vaccine. It's quite painful but it may be worth it. Most of my shrimps comes from the same guy so I don't really bother with this and never tried it. An interesting option could be of cultivating good bacteria population. This way, you control what's growing in your. Those bacteria will compete with the bad one to establish and drastically reduce the number of bad bacteria. That's what the biologist that I am say. technically, a little hard to put in practice. But, there are already a good amount of bacteria products available from companies. It may be worth to give it a shot. jledermann 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jledermann Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Great proposal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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