tinyplants Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 The more I read up on stuff and look at various vendors' websites while I wait for my tank to cycle so I can make final decisions on what shrimps I'm getting and from whom, the more confused I find myself getting.I'm currently using Salty Shrimp GH+ as my remineralizer and now that I've figured out my RO water problem it seems to be perfect. Then I see all these mineral balls. Bamboo charcoal, tourmaline, 'mineral stone'...Then I see more additives. Bacter AE, Revive Vivace, Fulvic Powder...Is the SS enough additive for shrimps to be happy or should I be getting some combination of these other things? I'm confused about the mineral balls--do they raise GH/KH over time? TDS? They say they replenish minerals but most of them make no mention of whether they make the water harder. Which of these probiotic supplements actually work and which are placebos? Are there other things I'll be missing?I feel like I've gone down a rabbit hole and may never get out! I'm currently debating the merits of giving up on fishkeeping and dividing my 29gal in half to be able to have more varieties of shrimps and I don't understand this stuff at all. Halp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenteam Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Mineral balls are the snake oil of shrimp keeping because no one can prove they do anything. Shrimp keeping can be very basic if you want it to be. Must haves in my opinion are: 1. Active substrate if keeping CRS/TB/Pinto. 2. RO water with something like SS Gh+. 3. A mature tank. 4. Sponge filter/air stone (always helpful to have) Then you have bonus stuff: 4. Natural things like leafs/alder cones. 5. 2-3 foods to help with variety. 6. Fancy addictive like mineral balls and so on. svetilda and Rodan76 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyplants Posted October 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Okay, that's what I thought, but the more I looked, the more confused I got! I'm waiting for my tank to mature and it has the other necessities and I have leaves and cones waiting. I decided this morning to scrap my plan for my 29 gallon and just go with a bunch of 10 gal instead because shrimp are cool. Rodan76 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenteam Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 There's ups and downs to large an small tanks. In my experience I have noticed larger tanks naturally are more stable and easier to manage. Also I have taken young born from the same batch placed a few in different size tanks 5g, 10g, 30g and noticed the larger the tank the faster they mature. On the down side if you have a large divided tank an you screw something up then you run the risk of killing all the shrimp. With multiple 10G's you might catch your mistake in one tank an save the others before you repeat that mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyana Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Lol, greenteam is right about the mineral balls. But the different food is kind of addicting, there's so many and each says to do something different that sounds like a must have haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyplants Posted October 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Small tanks have downsides for sure, but I really enjoy doing daily maintenance and level checks. I may also increase the capacity of each one by adding large hob breeding boxes as a spot to grow emersed grass for my cat, so that should help stability a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35ppt Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 I think it is like any other hobby/topic - there are basic concepts and increasing levels of detail above that. Sometimes it gets daunting. I know the products are proprietary, but it only adds to the confusion when they are vague about what's in it, or even what type of product it is. I have the same question about using a remin - what else do you need...and why? Is the active substrate contributing, and if so, what? MinusInfinity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Small tanks have downsides for sure, but I really enjoy doing daily maintenance and level checks. I may also increase the capacity of each one by adding large hob breeding boxes as a spot to grow emersed grass for my cat, so that should help stability a lot. I kept trying to do this with greens for my rabbits, and kept killing the hydroponic mint and lettuce that I was trying to grow. If you work it out, I'd really appreciate details so I can make a better attempt. This whole idea was what got me back into planted tanks in the first place, and I botched it so many times that I have given up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyplants Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 I kept trying to do this with greens for my rabbits, and kept killing the hydroponic mint and lettuce that I was trying to grow. If you work it out, I'd really appreciate details so I can make a better attempt. This whole idea was what got me back into planted tanks in the first place, and I botched it so many times that I have given up.if I figure out out, I'll document it for sure! Mostly I'd be doing wheat grass which is a fast growing mostly - sprout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillznglass Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 This is a shrimp forum not a wascally wabbit forum. All the trials this addiction has really pays off in the end. Keep your head up, and everything will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyplants Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Oh, I have NO doubt it'll be fine. It's going to be fun. It's just a matter of figuring out exactly what I'm doing and how best to do it. And I have Ideas. I'm going to be starting one of my two 10 gal tanks in the next couple of weeks, with an inert substrate, to see if I can do the thing I am dreaming of. Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loumeer Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 A lot of the products you see are aimed at different kinds of shrimp. If you want to keep nocardina the tank can be pretty basic. You need some way to maintain a certain gH and kH but necoardina can survive within a large margin and can handle things changing pretty well. Most of the expensive products you see are tailored to people who are keeping expensive shrimp that require peramiteres to be pretty stable and need good balance in their water and food to produce the best color. I would say it's very much like owning a car. You can buy a Honda civic and put generic parts in it and regular unleaded gas. If you want to buy a porche all the sudden you need specialty oil that costs 2x as much and specialty wheels that cost 3x as much and the car will only take high octane gas. Shrimping can easily be done on a budget but if you want to get into high end shrimp be ready to buy the high end products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyplants Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 I definitely recognized that they were aimed at different kinds, but it's a matter of trying to figure out what they do and how that is measurable, for me. It's one thing to say 'oh, the tourmaline balls keep your parameters stable' but another to say 'this is how.' And most of the descriptions of the projects just say 'adds important minerals!' but don't talk about what minerals those are, what the dosing rate is or any other measurable piece of information that actually lets us know what's going on. Like, for example, most of the shrimp probiotics/good bacteria don't actually list the species of bacteria that are in there. I'm used to probiotics for people and dogs and cats, which DO tell me what's in there and what the counts are on how many micro-organisms there are. Just as an example of why I'm confused by these products and their intent. I totally get that the more expensive products go with the more expensive shrimps and that there are reasons why, for example, liquid GH boost might be better for tank stability than a powdered supplement. There are just an awful lot of things that don't give any explicit information on why they do what they do or anything else. sarah, Wygglz, gillznglass and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETAquarium Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Ultimately it comes down to trial and error testing. Many of us have used a plethora of products on the market with both good and bad results. Unfortunately many of the products are in different languages, tailored for different countries, or just don't do anything for us. The best way to find out about products is to ask the forum, see what people say and we will steer you in a good general direction. Soothing Shrimp and gillznglass 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 You just can't beat having so many experiences and opinions in one place. What works for one person, may not work for another, but how nice it is to see so many ideas to help decide what is right for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyplants Posted October 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 I definitely appreciate the experiences of others. I just also like to know what it is that I am actually buying before I'm buying and what it's meant to do and how it has been determined that it works. I'm married to a scientist. Virtually every purchasing decision we make involves a lot of analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 LOL I know how that is. My brother is an organic chemist, so yeah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyplants Posted October 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 We seriously cannot buy a kitchen spoon without analysing the materials and how they hold up and what their properties are and why it may or may not be the best one. It's all about optimizing. There is nothing but optimizing. If it is not the optimal thing to do the thing, then it cannot be bought. gillznglass, Wygglz and Soothing Shrimp 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35ppt Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 We seriously cannot buy a kitchen spoon without analysing the materials and how they hold up and what their properties are and why it may or may not be the best one. It's all about optimizing. There is nothing but optimizing. If it is not the optimal thing to do the thing, then it cannot be bought. In most cases, you have the data/information to make those decisions. Why not use it? But like you said, with shrimp stuff, some of it is vague as to exactly what it is. Btw, how did the kitchen spoon decision turn out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyplants Posted October 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Silicone coated metal is best for most applications as it does not become rigid over time, scrapes the bowl optimally and is inert to very high temperatures, was the final decision. Soothing Shrimp, Shrimple minded and Wygglz 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 :goodjob: :goodjob: Wygglz and tinyplants 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 LOL I know how that is. My brother is an organic chemist, so yeah... Wait. WAIT WAIT WAIT. Your brother is a chemist?! An organic chemist?! WHY IS HE NOT DESIGNING YOU SPECIAL SHRIMP STUFF??? (I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I've hit that point where I'm giggling like a madman at everything and anything, BUT ZOMG ACTUAL SCIENTIST! MUST PICK BRAIN.) Soothing Shrimp and Wygglz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillznglass Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Topic awol win! Wabbits people Wabbits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyplants Posted October 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Wait. WAIT WAIT WAIT. Your brother is a chemist?! An organic chemist?! WHY IS HE NOT DESIGNING YOU SPECIAL SHRIMP STUFF??? (I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I've hit that point where I'm giggling like a madman at everything and anything, BUT ZOMG ACTUAL SCIENTIST! MUST PICK BRAIN.) If it helps, my wife is an evolutionary biologist and this is why I'm going to start breeding shrimps as part of a program rather than just having pet ones. To satisfy her curiosity about shrimp genetics and biology. She's more likely to let me have additional budget money for shrimps if they're science, too. svetilda and Soothing Shrimp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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