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Why does crossbreeding Neos result in wild/clear shrimp while Caridinas get diff patterns and color?

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Never heard a explanation why one Neocaridina crossbreeding with another color/pattern strain Neo, most often results in wild/clear offspring?

While crossbreeding different Caridina strains does not revert offspring back to wild phenotypes and they develop a new mixture of color/pattern

 

If there are any Caridinas (even other species besides C. cantonensis) that do end up reverting back to wilds, please let me know, as I am not aware of any that do.

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Though I don't know the specific on "Why" this is the case, a general statement would be: Purely Genetics.

 

I will share my most recent experience though I don't think it is a "Wild Var" it was interesting to me. I have been working on creating my own Zebra Pinto line for sometime. My most recent batch of F1 Taitibees actually threw a couple Black/Brown Mischlings that looked like CBS. Not sure if you would consider that wild, but I certainly wasn't expecting it from my Taitibee batch.

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It could be because people working with crystals tend to find the major color mutations tend to act as simple recessives.  Ie. red mutation (crs), solid pigment coloration mutation (TB).

 

Neos have the color mutations that pop up every once in a while, but seem to be much more complex in color loci.  Because of this people tend to selectively breed on the bell curve.

 

Selectively breeding with crystals happens too, but usually to set the modifiers.  Ie.  More solid in color, more coverage.

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I thought the crystal black is same as the "wild" shrimp, just selectively bred for improved color and coverage. It may may not seem like they are reverting because they are still desirable shrimp, unlike the wild form of cherry shrimp. Bee shrimp have a whole different game it seems, due the the fact that they can express multiple colors in defined patterns. Cherry shrimp come in different colors and color intensities, but aside from the back stripe that some of them have, they generally can't show two distinct colors. Rili shrimp just seem like piebalds, where they have areas on their outer shell that completely lack pigment. Maybe colorful patterns can be made since some shrimp like bloody marys have flesh that is colored, instead of a shell that is colored. Thinks it's possible to get a shrimp to express red flesh like a bloody mary, as well as a rili shell of another color, like black? A carbon bloody mary?

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Soothing nailed it, but I want to take a shot at an explanation.

 

Bee shrimp seem to have a "gene" that makes them have "red stripes" or "black stripes". This means that it tends to follow your typical classroom Punnett Square

You can predict the outcome of a generation pretty reliably and determine if a gene is recessive or dominant based on your breeding outcome.
You only get a new type when a random mutation is thrown into the mix.

Example: One tulip in a field may suddenly be red instead of yellow. A farmer would select that one and reproduce it.

You can get a unique new hybrid when you mix two of them because you are putting two unique genes together.

Example: If you hybridize two plants, you are going to get a pretty reliable result. Every time you cross spearmint x watermint = peppermint.

 

Neo shrimp have all colors in their shell. They are selectively bred for stronger expression of a particular color or mix of color. You breed a few of them and then pick the ones that look best. Then you breed them again, and pick the ones that match your desired trait. There are "genes" involved, but you aren't looking for mutations. You are trying to get the right alignment of existing genes to get the result you want. 

Example: If you keep breeding for bigger and bigger horses, in a few generations you can have a Clydesdale. 

If you breed neos together, their phenotypic traits tend to cancel out. This is because those "aligned genes" are now mixed up again. This means that crossing them makes them look wild.

Example: If you breed a great dane with a jack russell, you don't get a big dog with tiny legs. You just get a medium sized dog that looks a lot closer to a wolf than either parent. The jack russell doesn't have a mutation for tiny legs, a mutation for a tiny head, and a mutation for a short tail. The jack russell just has a few genes activated that make her smaller overall. The great dane has those same genes activated in the opposite way. When you mix them, they just cancel each other out and revert to normal.

 

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3 hours ago, pucksr said:

Soothing nailed it, but I want to take a shot at an explanation.

 

Bee shrimp seem to have a "gene" that makes them have "red stripes" or "black stripes". This means that it tends to follow your typical classroom Punnett Square

You can predict the outcome of a generation pretty reliably and determine if a gene is recessive or dominant based on your breeding outcome.
You only get a new type when a random mutation is thrown into the mix.

Example: One tulip in a field may suddenly be red instead of yellow. A farmer would select that one and reproduce it.

You can get a unique new hybrid when you mix two of them because you are putting two unique genes together.

Example: If you hybridize two plants, you are going to get a pretty reliable result. Every time you cross spearmint x watermint = peppermint.

 

Neo shrimp have all colors in their shell. They are selectively bred for stronger expression of a particular color or mix of color. You breed a few of them and then pick the ones that look best. Then you breed them again, and pick the ones that match your desired trait. There are "genes" involved, but you aren't looking for mutations. You are trying to get the right alignment of existing genes to get the result you want. 

Example: If you keep breeding for bigger and bigger horses, in a few generations you can have a Clydesdale. 

If you breed neos together, their phenotypic traits tend to cancel out. This is because those "aligned genes" are now mixed up again. This means that crossing them makes them look wild.

Example: If you breed a great dane with a jack russell, you don't get a big dog with tiny legs. You just get a medium sized dog that looks a lot closer to a wolf than either parent. The jack russell doesn't have a mutation for tiny legs, a mutation for a tiny head, and a mutation for a short tail. The jack russell just has a few genes activated that make her smaller overall. The great dane has those same genes activated in the opposite way. When you mix them, they just cancel each other out and revert to normal.

 

 

I can't like this explanation enough.  EXCELLENT WORK.  Thank you.

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