Shrimp and Water Troubleshooting and Prep

[Mikolas]

Hi all,

 

I am a returning hobbyist after having quit for a few years (just kept some 20 gallons barely operational). Previously, I had attempted to breed both caridinas/neos unsuccessfully in Buffalo, NY. The only thing that thrived did well were cherries, and snowball shrimp. My caridinas (OEBT, tigers, CRS and CBS) and neos such as neon yellow, orange, blue velvet, would also die. Once I transitioned to NYC, I had attempted dream blues and also could not keep them alive. The Dream Blues/OEBTs seem to die attempting to molt or when they were berried. Seeing them berried pretty much meant that they would die before hatching. Water was just tap water conditioned with seachem prime, no CO2, no R/O. Towards the end, it seemed the best way to keep them alive was "minimal interference". I only topped off water, and fed once every few/several days. This didn't ultimately work, but they stayed alive longer. 

 

Now that I'm back, at the recommendation of a friend, I have decided to try dirted/soiled tanks. Specs are below:

 

4x 20 gallon longs

2x 40 gallon longs

Substrate - Organic Soil on bottom, sand on top. 

Plants - Subwassertang, Swords, Anubias, Willow Hygro, Mint Charlie, Crypts, Vals, Crypts, Frogbit, Salvinia Cullcuta, Wisteria, Java Fern, marimo moss, banana plant. I have just gotten some flame moss and weeping moss and will be trying to make carpet/walls for the first time (in hindsight I did not have much of any moss in my shrimp tanks before). 

Ornaments - Manzanita or other driftwood depending on tap 

Filter - Aquaclear (with sponge on intake and Hydro sponge filter per tank

Lighting - 20 gallon longs have 2x 14 watt T5 NO 6.7k bulbs raised to around 16 inches, 40 gallon longs are somewhat to be determined but currently a 2x 54 watt T5 HO (about 18 inches above) and 1x 54 watt T5 HO (about 20 inches above)

 

I have cycled them and bought two shrimps so far.

Dream Blue shrimp - 20 gallon long

Sakura Red shrimp - 40 gallon long with Opaline Endlers (I understand I may incur some shrimplet losses)

 - I cannot provide the status of these yet as they've only been in for a day. Cherries seem fine, dream blues aren't as active as the cherries. 

 

I cannot personally vouch for the exact water parameters, but a caridina shrimp breeder here in NYC told me the following today. 

7 PH, 40 TDS, 2 GH, 0KH. 

He stated that since NYC water is very clean and soft, neos have a tougher time as they prefer harder water, but it's ideal for caridinas (can somebody confirm this?).

If this is the case, it may perhaps explain Dream Blues in NYC died? Just conjecture.

 

I am also looking to purchase orange neos, bloody mary, and may eventually consider mixing the tank with caridinas if the water is actually preferred, but I'm traumatized when I think back on how much $ I lost before on OEBTs and high grade CRS. 

 

As I'm concerned about the water "hardness" and molting/berried related deaths from before, I purchased Iodine and mineral rocks. I've also been recommended crush coral. Could somebody clarify if any of these products are necessary (or other supplement suggestions), and if so, please provide specific instructions (how many rocks, how many drops, how much crushed coral, etc). This time around, I would really like to make this work and would appreciate any tips/advice. Thanks!

 

Pic of set-up below.

 

[shamedic]

stop using tap water!!! before I got my RO unit I had die offs like you had you can get cheap RO unit on ebay for $60 not bad when you start adding up the price of the dead shrimp. I remin the water with Salty Shrimp Shrimp Mineral GH/KH+ I never have any die now. just get a few new 5 gallon buckets and make you water right where you want it

[jessaweeshrimp]

TDS for Caradina should be in between 120 to 220 depending on the sensitivity of the variety and the Neos more like 200-300. Salty Shrimp is the affordable option for sure SS GH for Caradina and SS GH/KH for the Neos. 

My dirted planted tank went through lots of different stages and personally I would say was stable after like 4 months regarding algae outbreaks of different types. So I had to 1, 2 punch it twice with H2O2 with shrimp and snails in it but almost all of them survived so I would say wait a few months before putting too many in there.

40 TDS will kill any molt attempt but when you use a remineralizer like Salty Shrimp or other you don't need the other additives like crushed coral etc...

Your lighting sounds like your are ready to gro 😁

[Mikolas]

8 hours ago, shamedic said:

stop using tap water!!! before I got my RO unit I had die offs like you had you can get cheap RO unit on ebay for $60 not bad when you start adding up the price of the dead shrimp. I remin the water with Salty Shrimp Shrimp Mineral GH/KH+ I never have any die now. just get a few new 5 gallon buckets and make you water right where you want it

 

To clarify, given the water parameters of NYC on how low it is on everything, isn't the tap water already accomplishing what the R/O unit was for? 

 

 

6 hours ago, jessaweeshrimp said:

TDS for Caradina should be in between 120 to 220 depending on the sensitivity of the variety and the Neos more like 200-300. Salty Shrimp is the affordable option for sure SS GH for Caradina and SS GH/KH for the Neos. 

My dirted planted tank went through lots of different stages and personally I would say was stable after like 4 months regarding algae outbreaks of different types. So I had to 1, 2 punch it twice with H2O2 with shrimp and snails in it but almost all of them survived so I would say wait a few months before putting too many in there.

40 TDS will kill any molt attempt but when you use a remineralizer like Salty Shrimp or other you don't need the other additives like crushed coral etc...

Your lighting sounds like your are ready to gro 😁

 

I have purchased the Salty Shrimp GH/KH, it will arrive in 4 days... Hopefully it won't be too long for the shrimp I already have. I heard the KH will increase the pH of the tank significantly, isn't this fixing one issue but creating another? How do you recommend I mineralize the water with this product? Assuming that it's 40 TDS, how much will I need to put in to reach the 200? I don't yet have a gh/kh tester and will not have it for at least 1-2 weeks, hence why I'll eyeball it based on the advice here. 

 

I'm experiencing the sulfur bubbles and it throwing up soil across my sand (really ruins my white sand tanks). 

[chappy6107]

your tap water may contain things that you do not know are there or harmful to your shrimp.  I used to use tap water and had die offs.  I switched to ro water remineralized and stopped having die offs.  I would suggest getting ro water since you have been unsuccessful using tap water in the past. 

 

 

[jessaweeshrimp]

Yes your tap is low but what are the ingredients of your tap? No way to really know that doesn't cost a fortune! But the RO has almost everything removed so you have a pure blank canvas to work with. 

The GH KH combo from SS will get one gallan to about 160 ish with the first mark (on the scoop that's included) per gallon on my TDS meter.

I fill gallon jugs and mix n shake n read. I do let it sit for a day to het to room temp. No heaters in my tanks except for the Cardinal shrimps. All the Neos and Bees are at room temp 70-74 

[shamedic]

3 hours ago, chappy6107 said:

your tap water may contain things that you do not know are there or harmful to your shrimp.  I used to use tap water and had die offs.  I switched to ro water remineralized and stopped having die offs.  I would suggest getting ro water since you have been unsuccessful using tap water in the past. 

 

 

this is right on the money. different times of the year you may get XYZ amount of this cem. but 3 months later it might need 10 time the amount of XYZ. it took me about 100 cherry shrimp to die before I got my RO unit. with all your tanks it would be best to get a big trash can on wheels for your RO water. it sounds like a lot of work but its better then having to keep buying new shrimp. I have mine set up by the window in my office waste water goes out the window. you can even get a float valve from home depot so you can set it up the day b4 WC and walk away from it.

%0

[shamedic]

3 hours ago, chappy6107 said:

your tap water may contain things that you do not know are there or harmful to your shrimp.  I used to use tap water and had die offs.  I switched to ro water remineralized and stopped having die offs.  I would suggest getting ro water since you have been unsuccessful using tap water in the past. 

 

 

this is right on the money. different times of the year you may get XYZ amount of this cem. but 3 months later it might need 10 time the amount of XYZ. it took me about 100 cherry shrimp to die before I got my RO unit. with all your tanks it would be best to get a big trash can on wheels for your RO water. it sounds like a lot of work but its better then having to keep buying new shrimp. I have mine set up by the window in my office waste water goes out the window. you can even get a float valve from home depot so you can set it up the day b4 WC and walk away from it.

[ClownPlanted]

Tap water and ESPECIALLY Caridina's just dont mix.  For Neos you need at least 6dGH.  This is why you had die offs with that low of GH.  Shrimp require calcium and when the levels are low they will have issues molting and will lead to death is what you saw.  Here is a link that shows the parameters that you want them in depending on species.  Do not mix Neo's and Cardinias.  While both may survive they both will not thrive.  For Cardinia's you typically want tds 100-180, PH 6.0-6.5.  KH 0-2.  GH 4-6.  Less and higher means molting issues and death.  And do not forget about temp.  You do not want the temp to get above 75f.  Doing so will give you a much higher chance for bacterial infections.  https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news/17030569-dwarf-shrimp-water-parameters

 

For food have a look at this link.  I feel the key is having a good variety and do not feed them everyday.  By having a good aged tank the bio-film will be their main source of food.  I swear by Bacter AE and as do many other breeders.   http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/gear/buyers-guides/articles/2016/7/21/the-big-shrimp-food-test

If you ensure that they are kept in the parameters of what they should be in I can assure you will have much better luck.  I have three tanks that have Crystal Red shrimp.  I have had them for about 5 months now and I have yet to lose a single one.  I started off with 20 and now have more than 100 due to 5 getting berried and having babies.  I always ensure that the nitrates never get above 10ppm and all the other parameters are in check.  They really will be happy and thrive if you can do that.  Key is get a RO unit.  RO unit or well you know the results.  

[Mikolas]

13 hours ago, chappy6107 said:

your tap water may contain things that you do not know are there or harmful to your shrimp.  I used to use tap water and had die offs.  I switched to ro water remineralized and stopped having die offs.  I would suggest getting ro water since you have been unsuccessful using tap water in the past. 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, shamedic said:

this is right on the money. different times of the year you may get XYZ amount of this cem. but 3 months later it might need 10 time the amount of XYZ. it took me about 100 cherry shrimp to die before I got my RO unit. with all your tanks it would be best to get a big trash can on wheels for your RO water. it sounds like a lot of work but its better then having to keep buying new shrimp. I have mine set up by the window in my office waste water goes out the window. you can even get a float valve from home depot so you can set it up the day b4 WC and walk away from it.

%0

 

Thanks, I'll unfortunately have to hold off on the R/O for now, I have one back in storage (5 hour drive away) that I've never used before I quit the hobby. It be too wasteful for me to buy a new one so I will try to get that within 1-2 months. Hopefully it won't present too much of an issue, I noticed most of the shrimp breeders I've encountered in NYC who were successful did not use R/O, including a person breeding the rarer and expensive caridinas (king kong/blue bolt/pinto/red wine/etc). So hopefully this is a sign that the R/O won't be an immediate need. 

 

12 hours ago, jessaweeshrimp said:

Yes your tap is low but what are the ingredients of your tap? No way to really know that doesn't cost a fortune! But the RO has almost everything removed so you have a pure blank canvas to work with. 

The GH KH combo from SS will get one gallan to about 160 ish with the first mark (on the scoop that's included) per gallon on my TDS meter.

I fill gallon jugs and mix n shake n read. I do let it sit for a day to het to room temp. No heaters in my tanks except for the Cardinal shrimps. All the Neos and Bees are at room temp 70-74 

I didn't quite understand your instructions. You're saying that the default scoop will add 160 TDS per gallon. So my 5 gallon bucket will add 800 TDS into the tank? I suppose for the first time, I would need to do that given that I have virtually no TDS, but in the future it just seems like 1-2 scoops per water change is sufficient?

 

4 hours ago, ClownPlanted said:

Tap water and ESPECIALLY Caridina's just dont mix.  For Neos you need at least 6dGH.  This is why you had die offs with that low of GH.  Shrimp require calcium and when the levels are low they will have issues molting and will lead to death is what you saw.  Here is a link that shows the parameters that you want them in depending on species.  Do not mix Neo's and Cardinias.  While both may survive they both will not thrive.  For Cardinia's you typically want tds 100-180, PH 6.0-6.5.  KH 0-2.  GH 4-6.  Less and higher means molting issues and death.  And do not forget about temp.  You do not want the temp to get above 75f.  Doing so will give you a much higher chance for bacterial infections.  https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news/17030569-dwarf-shrimp-water-parameters

 

For food have a look at this link.  I feel the key is having a good variety and do not feed them everyday.  By having a good aged tank the bio-film will be their main source of food.  I swear by Bacter AE and as do many other breeders.   http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/gear/buyers-guides/articles/2016/7/21/the-big-shrimp-food-test

If you ensure that they are kept in the parameters of what they should be in I can assure you will have much better luck.  I have three tanks that have Crystal Red shrimp.  I have had them for about 5 months now and I have yet to lose a single one.  I started off with 20 and now have more than 100 due to 5 getting berried and having babies.  I always ensure that the nitrates never get above 10ppm and all the other parameters are in check.  They really will be happy and thrive if you can do that.  Key is get a RO unit.  RO unit or well you know the results.  

I guess I will not be touching caridinas for the time being. Or i'll allocate a separate tank entirely with caridinas later on. 

 

Can anybody explain the relationship of gh, kh, tds? So GH is associated with calcium levels as per your statement, which naturally makes sense in needing to molt. I'm not really sure what/why TDS/KH does/is needed. Also, regarding the gh/kh supplement, won't I have potentially too high of one but need to put more to meet a minimum for another? i.e. my kh is too high with the amount I've put in, but still only have ex. 100 TDS? How would I be able to balance the salty shrimp supplement out? 

 

Also, recommended TDS meter/type? 

 

Thanks for the assists!

[oem]

On 9/24/2017 at 5:25 AM, shamedic said:

stop using tap water!!! before I got my RO unit I had die offs like you had you can get cheap RO unit on ebay for $60 not bad when you start adding up the price of the dead shrimp. I remin the water with Salty Shrimp Shrimp Mineral GH/KH+ I never have any die now. just get a few new 5 gallon buckets and make you water right where you want it

Hey Mikolas,  Purewaterclub.com has a 100GPD unit on sale for $67 with free shipping.  Cheaper then their 50GPD units.  They also have great service and replacement filters and parts galore for every situation.,,,,Mike

[jessaweeshrimp]

No!!! I was saying that it comes with a scoop. That scoop has multiple marks from the bottom to the top. 

I was saying the first mark from the bottom of the scoop! And any change in the right direction is a good one. You don't need 800 tds. How big is your tank?

The numbers I tossed out there were like 160 to the first line with RO and SS GH/KH. Your water already has something in it. 

If you are using 5 gallon buckets then two full scoops will get you going. If they are still alive you don't want to shock them with a TDS hard change. That is worse for them than a pH swing.

Eventually with every water change your tds parameters will increase until the tank is 200 or more. I use a i Spring TDS-3 pen stick myself. 

[jessaweeshrimp]

And you could buy 10 gallons of distilled water from most stores for 10$ or less and use Salty Shrimp GH+ for your caradinas with a cute little 10 gallon 👍.

I have my PRL in a 5 gallon tank.

I originally bought 10 about 3 months ago and now too many, good problem 😁

[Stacy1]

If I were in your shoes I would not purchase a shrimp until I atleast had a gh/kh test kit and a tds meter. You're going to find you'll need them in the beginning