Royal Blue True Water Parameters - Right Or Wrong?

[Necrectic]

Hi Everybody!

     I want to thank our fellow forum member forumsnow who drew my attention on a subject I found a little ambiguous. I am new to this shrimp obsession but been in the aquarist hobby for about 32 years. I witnessed the evolution in terms of equipment and species added, pretty much since Jacques-Yves Cousteau came up with his documentary "Cries from the Deep" in the 1980's. Back them, filter devices were primitive and we didn't know whether they worked properly or where built just to trick us and steal our money. 

     Even saltwater aquariums were simple but functional. I lived in the Caribbean and had several of them, never had to buy specimens, just wore my scuba gear and looked for them. Cycling them was even easier if you did it carefully. Just one Sergeant Fish or Demoiselle for one month period, then more fish were added, usually one a week. No Ocean Aquarium Salt was available at that time, you had to get all the water needed straight from the beach. Imagine filling a 100 + gallon saltwater aquarium!

     Now the tricky part. Back then, the only thing we cared for was the Temperature and may be, just may be the Ph. Parameters like Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate were tested by marine biologists and fisheries when they started to mess with crossbreeding stuff and exotic foreign species. Then came the Gh, Kh and TDS to make a bigger headache.

     I've been websurfing a lot, just to find the right water parameters for my Royal Blues I acquired about a month ago and are doing fine, very active, always in search for food, and even molting. All I want is to give my baby blues the parameters they deserve.

 

So far my parameters are:

 

Ph: 6.6-6.8

Ammo: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 5

Gh: 2-3

Kh: 3-4

TDS: 180

 

I have found these websites talking a lot of stuff about Parameters. Everybody on those websites believe and claim they know the true Parameters. It is crazy. It's like everybody made a shrimp cult and proclaim their philosophy is the one and only that will take your shrimp to shrimp heaven. Please review if you may.

 

Who's telling the truth???

 

http://oebluetigershrimp.com/orange-eyed-blue-tiger-shrimp/
http://www.aquariumdomain.com/viewFreshwaterInvertSpecies.php?invert_freshwater_id=17
http://www.critterhub.com/freshwater/tiger-shrimp-care-breeding/
http://www.theshrimpfarm.com/tiger-shrimp.php
http://shrimpwiki.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=73
http://www.freshwatershrimp.co.uk/product.php?id_product=79
http://www.naturebrain.com/en/una-sola-categoria-animales-2/180-shrimp-water-parameters
http://worldshrimp.com/?p=102
http://buypetshrimp.com/blog/tag/TIGER+SHRIMP
http://www.petshrimp.com/tigershrimp.php

 

 

Thank you so much beforehand for the shared knowledge, specially to those who actually keep and breed these amazing Blues. Your feedback will be really treasured and appreciated.

[monty703]

Don't know about all of those others, but I have Royal Blue Tigers and mine are breeding and doing just fine.

I first kept them in PH 6.4 nano Fluval Ebi tank along with some Crystal White Bee shrimps.  They were all very young as I got them shipped and usually its youngsters you get as adult shrimps don't handle shipping stress very well.

 

They were tiny, and I thought OK its going to be a long time before I get any to breed....that was in December. After a couple of weeks I thought OK I am going to put them into another tank to grow up, as I believed Tigers like higher PH, so this tank contained my blue neos some OEBTs.  Tap water of PH 7.6 in a 10 gallon tank with just plain old aquarium gravel and some floating plants, sponge filter and HOB. 

 

I left them in there and periodically would see them eating from the feeding dish, so I knew they were still alive.  I had 10 of them, lost a couple after the 1st few days to stress, but the rest seemed to be doing fine.

 

About a month ago I noticed one of them was actually quite large, so I rounded them all up and transferred them back into the Fluval Ebi tank where the PH is 6.4.  They did very well in there, very active and just last week I noticed one of them was berried.

I also added a heater that is preset to 78F, this does not seem to be affecting them in the least.  In fact 2 of my OEBTs and CWB are also berried in this tank.

 

So from this experiment I found that they can do well in either low PH or high PH, they adapt very well.

 

As far as tests go...I am not one to bother with KH/GH/TDS etc.  I just check for ammonia, and PH periodically, if I don't see any dead bodies and shrimps are active and eating I leave everything alone.  I also use only tap water, and add some minerals to the water.

 

Don't know if this helps you or not, but its working fine for me.

[Necrectic]

It will definitely help buddy. Your feedback is much appreciated.

[forumsnow]

I made a thread on how I keep royals awhile ago, I will try to find it and edit a link in. This is my personal experience from breeding them over the past 2+ years and close to 1000 being born. I adjusted params until both breeding and baby survival was optimal. It is one thing to get some berries it is another to get constant breeding and a high % baby survival.

I have been doing a lot of experiments lately with shrimp in different params. I have found a good healthy shrimp can survive in some pretty crazy conditions. I currently house my royals in my pinto tank which has less than optimal conditions for them. It is ph6.2 kh1 gh6 tds190 temp72. They are extremely active and healthy looking but there has been no berries yet. There has been a lot of discussion about higher temps lately. At higher temps the shrimp do in fact mature faster and take less time for babies to hatch. But bacteria also grows faster and there is more free ammonia. This is just not a risk I am willing to take with thousands of dollars worth of shrimp for a few more babies every year.

[forumsnow]

Here is the link

http://www.shrimpspot.com/index.php?/topic/1427-royal-blue-tiger-how-to/?hl=%2Broyal+%2Bblue+%2Btiger

[Necrectic]

Sweet Post! This is what I'm talking about! Again forumsnow and monty703 thanks a lot for sharing your experience with these shrimps. Only who breeds them knows them. I'm afraid your insight leads to more questions.

 

According to your experience;

1) What would be the ideal parameters for Royal Blues?

2) What products do you use to raise Gh, Kh and TDS?

3) If they are needed to be raised, in what order would you start raising Gh, Kh and TDS?

Again guys, thanks so much for your patience

[monty703]

yeah great post.  I wish I had a nice planted tank like that, but unfortunately my grass doesn't grow.

 

I understand about the temp, the only reason I had to put a heater in their tank was that because of our extreme

cold temps -40 and room temps dropping below 68F at night here I didn't want to lose any of them.  Once our temps go back to warmer, I will slowly drop the temp back to room temp around 73-75F

[forumsnow]

I have had my royals and oebt in 50 degree water for short periods with no issue. The problem with heaters is they malfunction. I would never use one with out some redundancy of a controller such as the reefkeeper or the beer thermostat I use on my tb tank.

Necrectic alk that information and more is in the link I posted.

[Necrectic]

Thanks again forumsnow, I'll look at it right away. I want to try something else other than baking soda and Epson salts.

[Shrimpy Daddy]

Hi Everybody!

     I want to thank our fellow forum member forumsnow who drew my attention on a subject I found a little ambiguous. I am new to this shrimp obsession but been in the aquarist hobby for about 32 years. I witnessed the evolution in terms of equipment and species added, pretty much since Jacques-Yves Cousteau came up with his documentary "Cries from the Deep" in the 1980's. Back them, filter devices were primitive and we didn't know whether they worked properly or where built just to trick us and steal our money. 

     Even saltwater aquariums were simple but functional. I lived in the Caribbean and had several of them, never had to buy specimens, just wore my scuba gear and looked for them. Cycling them was even easier if you did it carefully. Just one Sergeant Fish or Demoiselle for one month period, then more fish were added, usually one a week. No Ocean Aquarium Salt was available at that time, you had to get all the water needed straight from the beach. Imagine filling a 100 + gallon saltwater aquarium!

     Now the tricky part. Back then, the only thing we cared for was the Temperature and may be, just may be the Ph. Parameters like Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate were tested by marine biologists and fisheries when they started to mess with crossbreeding stuff and exotic foreign species. Then came the Gh, Kh and TDS to make a bigger headache.

     I've been websurfing a lot, just to find the right water parameters for my Royal Blues I acquired about a month ago and are doing fine, very active, always in search for food, and even molting. All I want is to give my baby blues the parameters they deserve.

 

So far my parameters are:

 

Ph: 6.6-6.8

Ammo: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 5

Gh: 2-3

Kh: 3-4

TDS: 180

 

I have found these websites talking a lot of stuff about Parameters. Everybody on those websites believe and claim they know the true Parameters. It is crazy. It's like everybody made a shrimp cult and proclaim their philosophy is the one and only that will take your shrimp to shrimp heaven. Please review if you may.

 

Who's telling the truth???

 

http://oebluetigershrimp.com/orange-eyed-blue-tiger-shrimp/

http://www.aquariumdomain.com/viewFreshwaterInvertSpecies.php?invert_freshwater_id=17

http://www.critterhub.com/freshwater/tiger-shrimp-care-breeding/

http://www.theshrimpfarm.com/tiger-shrimp.php

http://shrimpwiki.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=73

http://www.freshwatershrimp.co.uk/product.php?id_product=79

http://www.naturebrain.com/en/una-sola-categoria-animales-2/180-shrimp-water-parameters

http://worldshrimp.com/?p=102

http://buypetshrimp.com/blog/tag/TIGER+SHRIMP

http://www.petshrimp.com/tigershrimp.php

 

 

Thank you so much beforehand for the shared knowledge, specially to those who actually keep and breed these amazing Blues. Your feedback will be really treasured and appreciated.

 

Hey mate,

 

You are right, nowadays all the parameters are confusing. Actually, they are mostly used by commercial company to claim about their products, and they are overrated.

 

Tiger shrimp is capable of living in water that is mild acidic (pH 6.2) all the way to mild alkaline (pH 7.6). Given said that, originally tiger shrimps were mainly breed in harder and mild alkaline water (they are started by German and their water are harder). Hence, they will do their best with this sort of water.

 

In order to bring out the best colouration and shell thickness of your Royal Blue, you will need to increase the GH of your water. 2 to 3 dGH is too little. Aim for 6 to 8dGH. Are you using tap water or RO water + salt? If you are using RO + salt, then you will need to dose trace nutrients too. As for your pH, it is fine. Just try to keep it close to neutral. Over-time, tank will accumulate waste and the pH will start to drop.

 

By the way, your pH value and KH value do not tally. With 3 to 4dKH of carbonate alkalinity, the pH should be much higher. Hence, one of your measurement is not correct.

[Necrectic]

Good Day Shrimpy Daddy:

      I totally agree with you about the Ph and Kh issue. To measure Kh I'm using this API Gh & Kh test kit which is giving me a hard time. I have been suggested other test kits and definitely going for the change. All of you guys have my respect, keeping track of all those parameters is pretty challenging. Well, I was reading our Snowforum's post, please allow me to quote.

 

"For wc I make my rodi and immediately throw the powerhead in and remin with salty gh+ to tds100-110 gh like 4-5, dont ever check just use tds. Then I just use mosura tdsup to raise tds to what ever i need, if tds is high in tank I will use less tds up. Then i just drip in new water over like a hours time."

 

    So, let's say I got the RO Water. Remineralize using Salty Gh+. Then Mosura TDS Up to raise TDS to the required level. All that sounds pretty rational and makes sense. But I need more details on other parameters like PH and KH.

 

1) If after doing all that, PH is low. How could I raise PH if needed?

2) I've read the Salty Gh+ instructions and says and quote "It raises the total hardness (°dH) without significantly influencing the carbonate hardness (KH)."

    How could I raise Kh if I need to?

3) Does TDS has a direct proportion effect on PH and Kh?

4) I mean, If I raise TDS, will PH and Kh go up as well?

 

     My apologies for bombarding you with all these neoob questions but in order to succeed I need to cover all these subjects.

Again, thanks so much for all the shared knowledge

[Shrimpy Daddy]

If you remineralise the water using SaltyShrimp GH+ to 6 to 7dGH, you do not need to use the TDS up.

 

Most remineraliser salt will buffer the water to about pH 6.0 to 6.5. Hence, you do not need to worry about the pH of the salt. The problem you should concern is that the substrate is leeching too much acid.

 

If you are planning to increase KH too, you should use the SaltyShrimp GH/KH+ (the other type of salt) instead.

 

TDS is meaningless and does not tell you much information. Generally, it is used for analysing change of water quality, period.

[Necrectic]

Thank you very much Monty703, forumsnow and Shrimpy Daddy. I think I have most of the puzzle figured out. I'll keep you updated on my progress

[Necrectic]

Hi guys, just an update. No casualties so far, I've adjusted the parameters following your advise and they are doing good.

[Necrectic]

I also have some sweet info that I want to share. I bought the "Breeders 'n' Keepers" both volume 1 and 2. On volume 2 there's an interview with the breeder who created the Royal Blue, Frank Schenk. Please allow me to quote:

" I found the first Royal Blue Tiger shrimp in late 2010, they appeared in a group of Blue Tiger OE shrimp I had been working with for about 2 years. History kind of repeated itself in the strain of Orange Rili shrimp I've been able to build."

Also he talked about water parameters, again allow me to quote:

"I make some differences here, basically all my shrimp are in tap water - besides my Bee and Shadow shrimp, they have special requirements. I refuse to believe it for a long time, but Bee shrimp need RO water. My breeding tank rack water has the following parameters:
GH 11
KH 7
pH 7.2
Conductance 300
NO2 0
NO3 < 5mg

In my bee tanks I use RO water, re-mineralized with Bee Shrimp Mineral GH+ until the following water parameters are reached:
GH 6
KH 0
pH 6
Conductance 250
I change around 30 to 40% of the water every two weeks."

He talked about substrates, filters and stuff but I think this was the most relevant info I could take to my advantage and I wanted to share with you guys the knowledge this breeder shared. Hope it helps you guys!