Cycling a tank with ADA Amazonia

[andy]

Hi all,

I had started a 20L tanks with ADA Amazonia soil before. Got a lots problem with ammonia leech. It take me about 3 months to take it under control.

 

Now i would like to start a new tank (60L) again with amazonia

So i would like to ask, what is best way to cycling a tank with ADA Amazonia?

I know each tank are different, but i would like to know, cycling a shrimp "basic" tank with external filter with some moss. Not lots plants.

 

I had read there are people who's doing a lots water change, 50 to 100% daily over period of 2-3 weeks. Is that the only way? Since i think so you will loose lots start batterie.

 

thanks

Andy

[Shrimpy Daddy]

For the first 1 to 4 weeks, you need to use alkaline water to cycle the ADA AS. For the first 2 weeks, you may need to add Sodium/Potassium Carbonate/Bicarbonate and/ or Calcium Hydroxide daily to bring the pH above 6.6. To prevent the pH dropping fast, you should put a bag of aragonite (180g of dry aragonite per 60 litre of water).

 

The alkaline water will force the ammonium out as ammonia that can be consumed by the bacteria. In addition, the alkaline water will force the ADA AS to leech out excess organics, which could kill the shrimp later on too.

[andy]

For the first 1 to 4 weeks, you need to use alkaline water to cycle the ADA AS. For the first 2 weeks, you may need to add Sodium/Potassium Carbonate/Bicarbonate and/ or Calcium Hydroxide daily to bring the pH above 6.6. To prevent the pH dropping fast, you should put a bag of aragonite (180g of dry aragonite per 60 litre of water).

 

The alkaline water will force the ammonium out as ammonia that can be consumed by the bacteria. In addition, the alkaline water will force the ADA AS to leech out excess organics, which could kill the shrimp later on too.

 

I use RO water. Did i still have to use alkaline water? never heard before. thanks.

[Shrimpy Daddy]

Yes, you need alkaline water. It is simple chemistry at work. Acidic water will keep ammonium remains at ammonium, which can't be used by bacteria. When you introduce alkaline water, the ammonium will be released out as ammonia, which will evaporate or consume by the bacteria. Acidic water will also cause the acidic organic compound remains unchanged. If you add in alkaline water and maintain the higher pH, you will immediately see your bacteria will bloom and the water will tinted yellow (if you do not have activated carbon or purigen in the filter).  If your tap water is hard, you could use your tap water too.

 

RO water with shrimp specialty salt will usually give you pH 6.0 to 6.4. Hence, it is acidic.

 

Do you have shrimp in the tank yet? If not, then when you are changing to alkaline water, it will be beneficial for you to add a bag of activated carbon in your filter. This will remove excess ammonia and organics leeched out. It has to be removed before you add in the shrimp.

[andy]

No, my tank didn't have any shrimp yet. My Tap water is hard so i may try that first because i am not sure how to make alkaline water.

Do you have a site/url or info how i can make alkaline water for shrimp tank? Cos if i search on google, i can only find alkaline for drink water?

 

thanks

[Shrimpy Daddy]

To make water alkaline and is safe for aquarium, Sodium/Potassium Carbonate/Bicarbonate and/ or Calcium Hydroxide. If you have baking soda (sodium bicarbonate), you could use it too. Here is a calculator: http://www.ultimatereef.net/info/calculators/alkcalc.php

 

If your pH is below 6 right now, aim for dosing 8dKH. Once the pH drop is slowing down, then dose 4dKH daily. The best is to use it with aragonite. Or else, the pH can't be maintained easily, especially ADA AS is very rich in organic acid.

[andy]

Hey, 

thanks for your fast reply. I can get baking soda i guess. The other Sodium/Potassium Carbonate/Bicarbonate and/ or Calcium Hydroxide not sure what they are and google translate is not so helpful (I am from Netherland).

 

So if i am understand. I need keep the Ph higher?

Did i need water change after 4 weeks?

thanks a lots!

 

[Shrimpy Daddy]

Here is the translation to dutch:

• Sodium Carbonate - natriumcarbonaat
• Potassium Carbonate - kaliumcarbonaat
• Sodium Bicarbonate - natriumbicarbonaat
• Potassium Bicarbonate - kaliumbicarbonaat

The translation sounds correct to me. We call Sodium as Natrium and Potassium as Kalium too. It is more of ancient latin way of naming.

 

Yes, keep the PH above 6.6. Around 7 is the best. Too high will exhaust your substrate too fast.

 

Do 50% water change every week. When no more ammonium leeches out and the water does not turn yellow, it is almost done. By that time, do a 80 to 90% water change. Drain water until the highest point of your substrate and change out the water in your filter. In addition, you need to change the fine filter media such as polyester wool.

[randy]

I think I have the laziest way to cycle ADA tanks and it has worked very well for me. I use tap water for (and only for) the initial fill, and the tank will never see tap water again.

 

I made a post about my method, you can see if this might work for you too. The average time for my tanks to be ready is about 4 weeks.

 

http://ebilei.blogspot.ca/2014/11/how-do-i-set-up-bee-shrimp-tank.html

[bryan.cerro]

How would you achieve this with shrimp in? Is that possible? Is ADA the only substrate to leach?

[andy]

I would like to know too. but don't think is possble.

[Shrimpy Daddy]

It is possible. I did some controlled test recently: http://www.shrimpspot.com/index.php?/topic/1440-experimenting-new-probiotics-blend/page-2?hl=probiotic

 

One of the key thing you need to do is to age the AS with alkaline water and also disturb the substrate on the first and second week to release out any trapped pollutant out.

[pappy6699]

When dosing baking soda, does it have to be daily for the first two weeks or just once a week?

[Shrimpy Daddy]

Dose when pH drops below 6.8. Check the pH daily.

[TheGardenofEder]

Why would you want a substrate that leaches ammonia? Is there substrates that don't leach ammonia?

[jumpsmasher]

Why would you want a substrate that leaches ammonia? Is there substrates that don't leach ammonia?

 

ADA was designed for planted tanks so it is designed to to be pack full of nutrients for plants - it is popular substrate for shrimps because aside from the longer cycle time, it just works.  

Depends on where you are located - in some area of the world you don't have much choice. Here in Canada, they are pretty much the only active buffering substrate you can get for shrimps other than Fluval.  In the States you have more options nowadays;  I believe the Controsoil, Up Aqua Sand, Brightwell Rio doesn't leech ammonia.  Another factor is target pH level, i find ADA Amazonia / Africana is pretty aggressive in that regards.  They keep my tanks are aorund 5.8 or lower which is why my PRL seem to like.

 

I like to let my tank cycle anyways for the first month or so regardless of the substrate so it is a none factor for new tanks for me.  A non leeching substrate does come in handy though for emergencies.  

[chibikaie]

I'm trying to decide on a substrate for a blackwater tank, and reviews seem to indicate that the Malaya and Africana soils don't leach as much. Is there a reason they aren't as popular?

[jumpsmasher]

I'm trying to decide on a substrate for a blackwater tank, and reviews seem to indicate that the Malaya and Africana soils don't leach as much. Is there a reason they aren't as popular?

 

can't say for sure but i think there is a number of factors;

 

1) color - most ppl seems to like the darker color of Amazonia

2) target ph - Malaya / Africana is more aggressive - the ph of my Africana only tanks was around 4.8; too low for my bee shrimps

3) hardness / compactness - more so for Malaya as i heard it tend to break down / compact more easily than Amazonia.  Africana I find is harder and compact less

 

as i mention above i use a mixture of Amazonia + Africana in my tanks.  I find Africana works well with UG filters as they are harder and compact less so i tend to use them as my bottom layer. 

[chibikaie]

Thanks!

[andy]

can't say for sure but i think there is a number of factors;

 

1) color - most ppl seems to like the darker color of Amazonia

2) target ph - Malaya / Africana is more aggressive - the ph of my Africana only tanks was around 4.8; too low for my bee shrimps

3) hardness / compactness - more so for Malaya as i heard it tend to break down / compact more easily than Amazonia.  Africana I find is harder and compact less

 

as i mention above i use a mixture of Amazonia + Africana in my tanks.  I find Africana works well with UG filters as they are harder and compact less so i tend to use them as my bottom layer. 

 

I had often read there are more ppl use mix soil. What is your ratio Amazonia + Africana? 50% - 50%?

thx