We don't really know if what we are getting is a polygenic trait, incomplete dominance, epigenetics or something else, aren't we?

[uuaaayyy]

Someone mentioned paying attention to co-dominance here, started reading and there is a lot more:

• polygenic traits are more common than Mendel used
• co-dominance (spots or both colors for color)
• incomplete dominance (diluted for color)
• diluted color gene was mentioned too, as a different instance
• forgot the word, when changes are made not in the gene but in affected by it proteins production that affects phenotype
• I guess there is much, much more, and add epigenetics on the pot of this, when changes in phenotype are affected by conditions of the ancestors.

And we really don't know genetic passport of the particular shrimp group, bought in LFS.

 

Is there any practical application of all of this to the breeding shrimp? All of them, will be they neos, Taiwn bees, crystals or tigers.

 

Or only parts of it, from own experience, are known? Can you post what you found for the shrimp you are breeding, I am trying to figure out what could be done (at small hobbyist level) with neos and Taiwan bees, and saw explaining articles  only for fancy tigers.

[Danky808]

I would think that all or most of the fresh water shrimp have the same genetic guidelines when breeding? 
 

Easy example : Like which gender is dominant in filial offspring. So even F2s which would be Basically the best mixture of genes from both parents, would still technically have more traits from the dominant parent.

 

I also bring this example up because I haven’t seen any NEo or dwarf breeding projects where someone made sure to pick the dominant gender to breed with.  
 

Which is also why I wanted to do some projects with colored fresh water shrimp, Neos or Cardinals. Since I’ve only tried with the common Ghost Shrimp, and it’s a lot harder to visually see traits compared to using colored shrimp. 

[pucksr]

So, polygenic traits are more common. Neocaridinia are almost definitely polygenic

CBS/CRS color doesnt seem to be polygenic. When you mix black/red shrimp, some will be black and some will be red. It seems to follow a single gene.

I'm a little confused on tiger shrimp vs bee shrimp. Bee and tiger shrimp are the same species. Tiger shrimp are traditionally black, but they seem to use a different gene for black coloration. Because if you breed a black tiger with a red bee shrimp, you get crazy patterns. None of the offspring are red tigers.

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[Electrokate]

I am wondering if anyone can tell me if Neocaridina have the same type of gender determining genetics as vertebrates IE XX XY chromosomes for gender or is it different in invertebrates? I have some Bloody Mary culls that are quite orange and always it's males. I put two of them in a 5.5 gallon with a nice standard female red and all the babies are red, I can remove a female from the F1 (is that a term in invertebrates? I am used to breeding fish and birds...) generation and put with one of these new orange males and see what happens, assuming it's a simple thing of the female being a carrier of a recessive trait. If this was birds I would guess that the male only needs one gene to express it and it is sex linked recessive. It may also be epigenetic. I don't know if the original two males I put in darkened to classic red or if they died and two of their offspring are what I am seeing but I haven't seen the orange guys for a long while. So maybe the orange was temporary.

 

I also had a pink female with a pale pink back stripe, put her in a 5 and a pale male and got all normal Bloody Mary with one exception out of like 100 babies. That project is a lot of generations in and not yielding anything but stuff to trade to the fish store  I don't like back stripes on Bloody Mary shrimp. That pink female was awesome.

Thanks,
Kate

[pucksr]

https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/the-sex-of-offspring-is-determined-by-6524953/

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[Electrokate]

Thanks, so are shrimp like insects with the XX-XO system, and is the female the XX? I am guessing so... and that whatever is making the orange male shrimp is sex linked recessive. I guess there is also always the possibility that it's coincidence, or there is a lethal gene, so that a female having two expressions of orange would not develop properly. Lethal genes are a PITA for calculating odds. And coincidence happens.

Kate

[pucksr]

To be honest, I don't know which system decapoda use for sex. However, I posted that link because I wanted to quickly explain that while "binary sex chromosomes" are common, XX and XY are not. Also, some organisms(such as fish) don't use a binary system. Fish have 3 sex chromosomes!

 

The other thing to note on neos is that males typically present less coloration, particularly when they are younger.