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Tank set up and cycling questions


COsborn426

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Koi What do you guys think?  I’m setting up my very first tank EVER (shrimp tank, 10gal) and have been cycling it for a month or so. After a week or two & added bacteria, I added 2 apple snails and a couple plants, rock & driftwood. The tank was crystal clear for almost a month, and then was hit hard with thin green algae on the glass & rock. It’s just now calming down a bit. I’ve kept the rocks scrubbed and done at least 1 to 2 water changes a week. I have a TDS (225ppm) & pH meter that I’ve been using to monitor it. I also have a water chemistry kit coming, but have a Gh/Kh one (8drops Gh, 2drops Kh) I’ve been using also. My pH was getting up to 8.2 (w/RO remineralized water) but with extra water changes, it’s back to 7.5 or so. 
I have to do a light gravel vac once a week because my snails leave SO much organic matter behind and I have a bloom of Detritus worms, which I’ve read is no biggie, but I feel like there’s millions in there. 

Im not sure when the time will come for me to add shrimp?  I want to get my bigger water testing kit in first, and see what all the #’s are, but what do I look for to show a finished cycle?  I don’t want to order $100 in shrimp then have them all die on me!  I also want to add a small group of nano fish once my shrimp are established. 

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Tank will have finished cycling after ammonia is close to 0, nitrite is close to 0, and nitrate should be between 0-5ppm.  If nitrate is 10ppm or higher do water change to lower it to 0-5ppm.  Neo tank I assume from your water parameters, ro water should be close to neutral ph of 7+/- 0.2, then add minerals to desire parameters.

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Short version:

  • for neocaridina shrimp, replace this substrate with inert and dilute your tap water with RO water,
  • or keep there crystal shrimp, but use remineralized with GH+ RO water and cooling in summer, to meet their requirements.

Long version, let's try to untangle this:

  1. What kind of shrimp you plant to keep? If neocaridina (cherry shrimp and their other color forms), then setup should be different (inert), especially if tap water will be used. See their reqirements, and all parameters should be met, not just one.
  2.  If acid water caridina (their requirements, including cool temperature, are in the link above). They have to have pH lowering substrate and remineralized with GH+ RO water. No KH and TDS 130 ppm or less, pH not higher than 6.5 for crystals, 6.0 or less for Taiwan bees.
  3.  Your substrate looks like Aqueon shrimp and plant substrate, it is  pH lowering substrate that keeps pH steady at around 6.5 when used with RO water, remineralized with GH+.
  4.  If so, this setup is not for neocaridina shrimp, inert sand or plant substrate is better. If you will be using a) RO water with inert substrate, use another remineralizer, GH/KH+ (you see shat shrimp is shown on label). b) Or use tap water. c) If tap water is too hard, it could be diluted with RO water to bearable parameters.

 What current pH lowering substrate was designed to do and what it does: they use different from carbonate buffering (KH) system, likely humic based, that allows to keep pH below 6.8, unlike KH that keeps pH stable pH above 7. It has to be used with KH-less water. KH interferes with their work and have to be removed first before lowering pH, at cost of losing their buffering capacity much faster, and creating fluctuations of pH and KH at each water change, stressing animals to the point that they are barely alive. You can check this by testing pH and pH every hew hours after water change. KH is connected to pH: less KH, lower pH (swing).

  • If you intend to use water with KH and pH above 7, siphoning active substrate out is the simplest solution to the problem, worked well for me. Hard water shrimp were no longer stressed and everything became fine.
  • If you intend to keep this substrate, use RO water with GH+ remineralizer (not GH/KH+). pH will be lower than optimal for tap water shrimp (neocaridina, ghost, fan, amano), they could possibly adapt, but should have hard time to do that. Using another kind of shrimp that can live in these conditions (crystal shrimp)  should be more reasonable, only they need cooling in the summer.

 

Planted tank part, unrelated to shrimp keeping:

  1. Remove mineral wool from potted plant, it doesn't add health to the tank.
  2. Ask any plated tank group if your light fixture is right for your plants. There are two distinct planted tank setups. a) There are low light plants that do not need CO2, light in this tank must be low, photoperiod not  more than 8 hrs and nutrients have to be kept low (a lot of vacuuming, removing all what rots there), or you will get nuisance algae. b) High light plants, as I understand, need CO2 dosing, fertilization schedule, maintaining delicate balance between light and nutrients, and a lot of trimming. Choose which road to take.
  3. Remove all waste, it will be much more than light vacuuming. Later feed in shrimp feeding dish (or Petri dish, or small clear glass ashtray from dollar store) and remove uneaten food.

Time to add shrimp

will come after making your choices, changing either tank setup or water, much more cleaning and maybe changing lights on weaker. Make sure that water parameters are stable and within chosen shrimp requirements before ordering them. If you plan to keep Taiwan bees, another substrate will be necessary, that was designed to keep pH around 6.0, something like ADA Amazonia Light.

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The substrate is Aqueon, but it is advertised as INERT, not ph lowering, even though some people believe it does lower it some. mine is staying around 7.8 which seams a bit high, so I’ve implemented more water changes. 
 

I stated I was using RO remineralized with gh/Kh+.  I will be purchasing Neocaridina’s. 
my main question was how to know when my tank is done cycling. I just added more plants, but haven’t planted them yet, just getting them acclimated to the tank right now. 
 

thanks for the info!

 

 

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I have it in one of my tanks (with KH-less water), pH is 6.4, stable. Amazon reviews show even more acid experience of another user, but if it works in opposite way for you, why not. Let's hope that everything will be fine. Best of luck!

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Short version:
  • for neocaridina shrimp, replace this substrate with inert and dilute your tap water with RO water,
  • or keep there crystal shrimp, but use remineralized with GH+ RO water and cooling in summer, to meet their requirements.
Long version, let's try to untangle this:
  1. What kind of shrimp you plant to keep? If neocaridina (cherry shrimp and their other color forms), then setup should be different (inert), especially if tap water will be used. See their reqirements, and all parameters should be met, not just one.
  2.  If acid water caridina (their requirements, including cool temperature, are in the link above). They have to have pH lowering substrate and remineralized with GH+ RO water. No KH and TDS 130 ppm or less, pH not higher than 6.5 for crystals, 6.0 or less for Taiwan bees.
  3.  Your substrate looks like Aqueon shrimp and plant substrate, it is  pH lowering substrate that keeps pH steady at around 6.5 when used with RO water, remineralized with GH+.
  4.  If so, this setup is not for neocaridina shrimp, inert sand or plant substrate is better. If you will be using a) RO water with inert substrate, use another remineralizer, GH/KH+ (you see shat shrimp is shown on label). B) Or use tap water. c) If tap water is too hard, it could be diluted with RO water to bearable parameters.
 What current pH lowering substrate was designed to do and what it does: they use different from carbonate buffering (KH) system, likely humic based, that allows to keep pH below 6.8, unlike KH that keeps pH stable pH above 7. It has to be used with KH-less water. KH interferes with their work and have to be removed first before lowering pH, at cost of losing their buffering capacity much faster, and creating fluctuations of pH and KH at each water change, stressing animals to the point that they are barely alive. You can check this by testing pH and pH every hew hours after water change. KH is connected to pH: less KH, lower pH (swing).
  • If you intend to use water with KH and pH above 7, siphoning active substrate out is the simplest solution to the problem, worked well for me. Hard water shrimp were no longer stressed and everything became fine.
  • If you intend to keep this substrate, use RO water with GH+ remineralizer (not GH/KH+). pH will be lower than optimal for tap water shrimp (neocaridina, ghost, fan, amano), they could possibly adapt, but should have hard time to do that. Using another kind of shrimp that can live in these conditions (crystal shrimp)  should be more reasonable, only they need cooling in the summer.
 
Planted tank part, unrelated to shrimp keeping:
  1. Remove mineral wool from potted plant, it doesn't add health to the tank.
  2. Ask any plated tank group if your light fixture is right for your plants. There are two distinct planted tank setups. a) There are low light plants that do not need CO2, light in this tank must be low, photoperiod not  more than 8 hrs and nutrients have to be kept low (a lot of vacuuming, removing all what rots there), or you will get nuisance algae. B) High light plants, as I understand, need CO2 dosing, fertilization schedule, maintaining delicate balance between light and nutrients, and a lot of trimming. Choose which road to take.
  3. Remove all waste, it will be much more than light vacuuming. Later feed in shrimp feeding dish (or Petri dish, or small clear glass ashtray from dollar store) and remove uneaten food.
Time to add shrimp
will come after making your choices, changing either tank setup or water, much more cleaning and maybe changing lights on weaker. Make sure that water parameters are stable and within chosen shrimp requirements before ordering them. If you plan to keep Taiwan bees, another substrate will be necessary, that was designed to keep pH around 6.0, something like ADA Amazonia Light.

Excellent write up. Very helpful.
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