OEBTs breeding issues and gh 9?

[Duque]

Hi Everyone.

 

Is a gh of 9 too high for OEBT's to live and breed comfortably?   If I need to lower the gh, how do I do it without affecting other parameters and while following dosage instructions on the SS gh+ package?

 

I have 2 blue tiger tanks which I've been tweaking for almost 3 years now and still haven't achieved a successful breeding environment.   Over the years people have been extremely generous with their advice and help, and I'll usually stick with something for about 6 months and see how it works before trying someone else's "recipe".

 

Both tanks use only R/O water, are heavily planted, have driftwood, ramshorn snails, pygmy cories & ottos, use two sponge filters each, kept at about 70-73 degrees, and have similar substrates (Fluval).  Although one is about 2.5 years old, while the other is 8 months or so.   Speedie helped me realize that I had been mixing too much SS gh+ AND Kent's R/O Right and suggested that I just stick to the SS gh+ and follow dosage instructions.  (Shout out to Nick for catching that).

 

Here are the parameters from 2 days ago:

 

pH 6.5 and 7.4 (older tank and I don't know WHY)

KH 2

gh 9 (sometimes even 10)

temps 70-73

NO3/NO4    0.0 - 0.3

TDS - I forgot to check it before feeding them, but usually around 270

I have mineral balls and rocks in both of them.

 

As I occasionally have a few baby shrimp appear (only a few survive), the feeding regiment is the following:

 

3-4 times/week: Borneo Wild Bebi or Shirakura

1 x week or every other week: Borneo Wild "Shield" and Mosura Bio Plus

2 X week:  Crushed and ground up Shirakura (regular and/or Vivid), Borneo Wild "Color"

1 x week:  thawed out frozen spinach

1 x week:  frozen blood worms

All of this is mixed, alternated, substituted, and most importantly fed in SMALL portions, usually only on alternating days.  I'll have a 2-day fasting in the middle of the week.

 

If there's anything obvious, I'd really appreciate your input.

 

Thanks Everyone!

 

 

 

 

 

[Duque]

I forgot the add that I'm using a little bit of Repashy Shrimp Soufflé.

 

Again, it's a large list of food because I want to mx it up, in case they don't like one food.

[OMG Aquatics]

I don't know any on OEBT but if they are very picky, GlasGarten Bacter AE is an option and most people here use it.

[DETAquarium]

I keep my OEBTs in the following parameters:

 

PH- 6.9-7.2

KH- 0

GH- 5/6

Temp- 72

TDS - 225

 

Seems that your GH is a bit high, try reducing your Salty Shrimp GH+ dosing by half a scoop. I am not sure if this will solve any issues, but in my experience I have had success with the above parameters.

 

[randy]

OEBT and BTOE had been the most difficult species for me. I failed 3 times in the last  3 years, and then it finally worked for me last year.

 

And one of the reasons I find it hard is .... I can't think of anything I do differently now comparing to what I did before ?!

 

However, once it's worked for me the first time, they are like the easiest shrimps ever. I had a 5.5G with over 200 of them, then I move them out to a staging tank waiting to be shipped, sold all of them except 10 kept in another 5.5G with just an air driven sponge filter.

 

Now, the staging tank has about 50 from no where, the 5.5G has about 100 from 10 in August.

 

Not bragging, but I'm trying to give you some hope here ;-)

 

FWIW, here is my parameters (basically, exactly the same as my CRS tanks)

 

Substrate: ADA

Plants: moss

Water: RO remineralized to TDS 150, GH 5-6, KH 0,

Temperature: 70-76

Tank size: 5.5G - 15G

Water change: 10%-15% every 2-4 months on average unless nitrate is too high

Water flow: low

 

If I were you, I would stop using anything other than food. I sell some of these products but I have seen people using 10 different products without knowing what they do. These products do help but you need to get to know them. I would slowly add those products one at a time in small dose, and if you don't see any effects, save your money.

 

For food selection, use one main staple food (used 60%-70% of the time), then one to two supplement type of food (10%), together with vegies (20-30%). If they aren't active (tigers should be), reduce the feeding amount until they are active.

[Duque]

Hi again.

 

Wow.  What a varied groups of experiences.  This is pretty fantastic.  I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of the input. 

 

OK.  I checked my TDS this morning and it was 170 in the tank, while GH is 9.   Shouldn't the TDS be reflective of the GH?

My premixed R/O water is running at the following:

 

pH 6.4-6.5

KH 1

GH 9

TDS 118

 

 

DET, don't you want a KH of 1 or 2 to buffer any potential pH spikes?   Or is that not a concern if you're using R/O and doing regular water changes?   I know Speedie uses inert substrates in his tanks.  What are you using?

 

Randy, I thought that Orange Eyed Tigers required pristine water conditions.   Do you find that doing such large water changes all at once disturbs them?

 

 

Final question.  Feeding.

1.)  How often do you feed adults and young?

2.)  If you have baby shrimp, how often do you feed them baby shrimp food?

3.)  Does anybody use higher protein foods or even baby blood worms to induce breeding?

 

 

Thanks again to everyone.  It's nice to feel such community support.

[DETAquarium]

Duque, honestly I don't have PH spikes with a 0 KH as long as your tank has fully cycled. After that I only top off my shrimp tanks, I never do a water change unless the TDS has risen to an unwanted level. I use RO/DI water so it really eliminates alot of the issues, especially since you are able to recreate the water parameters that you see fit for your shrimp.

 

1) Feeding really depends on the size of your shrimp colony. At times when I have 100+ shrimp I feed small portions Monday-Friday. When I have a colony of 30-100 I feed MWF, and lastly everyone else I feed Monday and Friday. 

 

2) I usually only use baby food in smaller shrimp colonies. Larger colonies of mine usually mean a more mature tank, a mature tank usually has plenty of biofilm and algae about.

 

3) I don't pay attention to "higher protein foods", I always pay attention to the quality. Is it natural/organic? Do each of the added ingredients benefit my shrimp in one way or another? I never try to "induce" breeding, this will come naturally as they acclimate and become adjusted to your water and surroundings. Never rush breeding, it will happen in time.

 

These are all my opinions and what has worked for me in my experiences. I always tell people to be patient, its when people are in a rush to see something they want happen when disaster strikes.

 

Hope this helps.

[randy]

All shrimps need pristine water. I don't think 10-15% is considered a large water change, and I do it only 3-4 times a year ;-)

 

I feed all my shrimps good quality food every other day. For OEBT I feed more often because they are so active. Good shrimp food should have good protein content, more importantly good protein conversion. In the vol 2 of breeders and keepers, one breeder commented that he uses high protein/fat food and finds it better for shrimps, I tend to agree with that. He also says that if your shrimps are used to higher vegetable content then you shouldn't make a drastic change to high protein, they need time to adjust.

 

 

 

Randy, I thought that Orange Eyed Tigers required pristine water conditions.   Do you find that doing such large water changes all at once disturbs them?

 

Final question.  Feeding.

1.)  How often do you feed adults and young?

2.)  If you have baby shrimp, how often do you feed them baby shrimp food?

3.)  Does anybody use higher protein foods or even baby blood worms to induce breeding?

 

[Duque]

Again, ....Wow.      You guys are an incredible source of information.   Thanks for all of the input.  It's a lot to think about.

 

I'll have to seriously consider this and see what happens.  Maybe I'll try to follow Randy's water change strategy in the OEBT tank, which is having some unusual problems with a higher pH, for the some reasons.  Many of the OEBT's have lost color and I've had a significant population decline.

 

I'll cut back on the feeding in the Royal Blue tank and see if they'll be more stable and active.  

 

Thanks, once more, and I'll try to give you guys an update.

[christinenha]

I keep my OEBTs in the following parameters:

PH- 6.9-7.2

KH- 0

GH- 5/6

Temp- 72

TDS - 225

Seems that your GH is a bit high, try reducing your Salty Shrimp GH+ dosing by half a scoop. I am not sure if this will solve any issues, but in my experience I have had success with the above parameters.

I'm going to be keeping Royal Blues and am having the same issue. My TDS is around 8-9 consistently but my TDS is around 170. How is your TDS so high and your GH so low?

Edit: Woops. I said TDS. I mean GH is 8-9. -.-

[Duque]

Hey, I'm with Christine on this one.   

 

GH 9 and TDS around 170 - 180.  

How do you keep TDS up?    Should we NOT do 10% water changes twice a week, as so many others recommend?

[DETAquarium]

I'm going to be keeping Royal Blues and am having the same issue. My TDS is around 8-9 consistently but my TDS is around 170. How is your TDS so high and your GH so low?

Edit: Woops. I said TDS. I mean GH is 8-9. -.-

 

Sorry for the late response Christine. Do you use RO/DI water? 

[DETAquarium]

Hey, I'm with Christine on this one.   

 

GH 9 and TDS around 170 - 180.  

How do you keep TDS up?    Should we NOT do 10% water changes twice a week, as so many others recommend?

 

I never do a water change unless my TDS is not where I see fit.

[christinenha]

Sorry for the late response Christine. Do you use RO/DI water?

Yes. I strictly use RO water for my tanks and remineralize with SS GH+.

[DETAquarium]

Yes. I strictly use RO water for my tanks and remineralize with SS GH+.

 

So when you remineralize from RODI water to 170 TDS your GH reads 9? That doesn't sound right to me. GH and TDS have a correlation, so I am stumped why your GH would be 9, have you tested with a different kit?

[JayMarshal]

Could be using a strip to test GH maybe..

What kit do you all use to test for GH and KH?

Am wondering how everybody is getting their GH and KH values.

I'm using Nutrafin GH/KH test kit to get those.

[DETAquarium]

I use the API GH/KH drop test kit.

[christinenha]

I use the API drop test kits too.

[DETAquarium]

I use the API drop test kits too.

 

What substrate and additives/supplements do you use?

[christinenha]

I use the Fluval Stratum substrate and just added my first small dose (0.25 mL) of Flourish Excel a few days ago. Nothing else is added to the tank other than food every 3-4 days.

[Duque]

Again, I do exactly the same as Christine (except no Excel), use the same testing kit, remineralizer, RO, etc...

 

DET, I follow the SS GH+ dosage instructions (using the little spoon) and test the water before it goes in the tank and I have those same parameters.  KH 1-2, GH 9, and TDS 170-180.

 

Christine, how often do you do water changes?

[christinenha]

I do 25% water changes twice a week right now.

[Duque]

Yeah.  I do 10% twice a week.

 

I've been diluting my remineralized RO a little bit and got the GH down to 6.  The TDS is still around 170.

[DETAquarium]

Sorry I have not chimed in on this for a bit. My only other suggestion would be not to follow the directions on SS GH+ to the tee. Try remineralizing your RODI water to about 150-160. Test your GH/KH then and see your results.

[jumpsmasher]

If follow the direction on the tube for Salty Shrimp GH+ (1 scoop per 5 gal) the resulting TDS of the RO water (prior to adding it to the tank) should be closer to 100 and GH should be 3-4. Adding more will increase the GH / TDS accordingly.

For my OEBT I used around 3 spoonful (~ approx. 1.5x dosage) to get my GH closer to 6. Resulting TDS was around 150.

Everybody's water is different experiment with what dosage you need to get to your targeted GH and record the amt of SS GH+ as well as TDS and use those figures as a reference for the future.