maylee Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Worst case scenario. You lose your tank and might need to start over. How do you do it? I'm sure many of us have gone through the rollercoaster that is shrimp keeping. I went from starting this new hobby a couple of months ago, to having berried shrimp, to having shrimplets, and then losing shrimp to what might be a bacterial infection. It's pretty discouraging. But I don't want to quit entirely. Assuming it's a good way to go, let's say I lose the entire tank. I still have all the plants, the substrate, etc. What's the best way to start over? Or is it really just throwing an atom bomb on everything and getting new substrate, re-cycling, etc. As a note, no I haven't lost the tank but I have had regular deaths recently. I've done things like lowered the temp, isolated what I believe to be the affected shrimp, put in more almond leaves. Hoping it gets better. Thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenteam Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Everyone starts rough at first I lost my first 3 batches of shrimp to lack of experience. As you get more into the hobby you might get the urge to setup another tank or make friends that keep shrimp in the local area. So when you have a tank crash or fail you turn to friends or even other tanks to help start a colony again. If you have bacteria issues and say you lost the whole population I would personally start from scratch by taking the whole tank apart and reset the process. techsmith 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35ppt Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Yeah, if you have any question about the source(s) of your problem(s), it is best to start over. You might be able to salvage the substrate, but all things considered, it may not be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfishlady Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 My last TOD was not shrimp (although I had 3 shrimp among the fish - first shrimp ever). I had so many problems that I literally drained all the water and then tossed EVERYTHING - equipment, plants, rocks, wood, tank. I almost cried over the money I had spent but I could not pin point the issue and I was frustrated beyond belief and chucked the whole thing. In hind sight, not sure if I needed to go that extreme but ... that's what I did, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 I've done a permanganate bomb (both with and without fish; unlikely to try it with shrimp). Pretty harsh yet still won't kill everything. To be honest, I am still keeping my fingers crossed that my tanks will thrive this time. It is a gamble as I use tap water. I was much less stressed when I had fish. I knew what I was doing! Crazyfishlady 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 At least you have a sense of humor about it! Examples why I should not be allowed to name anything: "Unholy Terror" and "Yet Another Bunny" Rodan76 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maylee Posted April 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 I wouldn't be able to even keep the plants I guess huh? It wouldn't be a huge deal or anything. Too bad I had just gotten everything the way I wanted. Another death today :/ I guess I'd have to chuck everything inside. What about the tank itself? How should it be cleaned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfishlady Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 wait and let others with more experience help you through what to toss and what to keep. My 'fit' was akin to getting so mad at your computer you open the window and chuck it. We may all want to do that at some point but it could very well be that you can salvage more than you think 35ppt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumo82 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 I've been running melafix and ial with my black spot disease recently. It's seems to be helping and I'm on day 3 of the melafix. Full dose. 6 ial total in a 20 long. Temps sitting at 68-72 depending on room temp thruout the day. I pulled the heater. Originally they were in a 10 gallon. I left the gravel and tank and took plants driftwood to the new 20L. Hopefully your shrimp get better. Mine seem to be improving with appetite and black spotting is fading already. I lost 4 crs and a cherry pre ial and melafix. So far, no deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodan76 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Just for sake of argument before you toss everything, what are your water parameters? I am by no means an expert, but i think with all the folks in the forum we have seen our fair share of tanks going bad. After seeing so many folks having bacterial infections and myself never seeing one yet (fingers crossed i never do!) I have always made sure to keep ial and alder cones in my tanks. i had a tank lose inhabitants left and right, i pulled out the few i had left and was going to start over, but out of laziness i just did a large water change and left the tank running for about a month just dosing with bacter ae and BW shield once a week. I have since had new shrimp move and have been fine for a month with no issues and berried mamas. Sorry for your losses and i hope it gets better! sewoeno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewoeno Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 surprised no one asked for water params until now. thats the first place to start and if you assume bacterial infection you should pull the cloudy looking shrimp and put into their own tank/cup whatever to treat or let die :-| Desert Shrimp Depot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35ppt Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Do you have a thread with details of your issues? I did not see it. Crazyfishlady 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maylee Posted April 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Sorry for abandoning this thread. For a while there, things were going well again. I wasn't having any deaths so I thought things were getting better. The deaths have started up again. My yellow neos don't seem very active anymore either. They seem to be staying still a lot. I'm pretty sure one of the deaths was a failed molt and then there were a couple more dead shrimps when I came home last night from going out of town for the weekend. I thought the failed molt was a little odd because I see complete molts in the tank pretty often. I'm waiting on a gH/kH test in the mail. otherwise, my parameters are; pH - 7.6 temperature - 76 ammonia - 0 nitrites - 0 nitrates - 10 - 20 I think TDS - 250 I may have failed to mention but this is a 5 gallon and I only use a sponge filter. I do have a small HOB on there but I was reluctant to turn it on because of the outtake flow. I have been doing 10% water changes per week. I'm not so sure it's bacterial since I don't see any milky white bodys. I even noticed one of the females was "berried" about a week ago. I put that in quotes because she was only carrying two eggs total. I'm pretty sure she has since dropped both of them. Whether that is stress from the water or old age, I don't know. On the bright side, the few shrimplets I do have seem to be doing well. They're getting bigger and bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Definitely find out GH and KH. Consider getting nitrates below 10. If you're on tap water and this is your only tank, consider RO water instead as there may be something that you can't detect on a test that is detrimental. Otherwise? No idea here. Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maylee Posted April 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Thanks! I should be getting the gh/kh test in a couple of days. As for nitrates, I have tons of floater plants that are doing really well. I'm using the API master test kit and I hear the nitrate test can be inaccurate but I tried to do it as close to the instructions as I could. And yes, this is a tap water tank conditioned with prime on water changes. I'll give RO water a try the next chance I get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyeGuy411 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 I had a tank of death that over months I dumped about $125 dollars worth of neos into and finally found out it was the tap water. Even conditioned with prime it did not help there is something in the water that is toxic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maylee Posted April 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Do you think it could still be the tap water if my neos were originally doing really well? I even had three berried at the same time at one point. At the time, I only had about 15 in there total. Another death this morning but I could see this one coming last night. He was hanging off some frogbit but really lethargic at the same time. This while the others munched on an amaranth leaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Shrimp Depot Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 In some cases it's looking for your secret combination. I decided that even for Neos I would not allow a drop of tap water into my aquariums. Reasons for this go far beyond the things we KNOW are in tap water - it's because of the things we don't know about - such as estrogen compounds from and antibiotics from upstream farms and sewage treatment plants. These things are customarily reported or even tested for. Then there is the added fluoride and my shrimp don't need it - (no teeth). I wanted to start with a known quantity and go from there. To my surprise this didn't work at first. Molting problems. It turned out the using Seachem equilibrium only did not have all of the trace minerals the shrimp needed -- switched to Salty Shrimp and problem solved. Then there was the tank (I started with several) that had slow gradual death. I was stymied - ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate remained at zero once it was cycled - however I did rush the shrimp into the aquarium before it had completely cycled and I had a bit of nitrite <2ppm. for a bit. Finally I realized the shrimp had gotten brown blood disease when the nitrite was present. Brown Blood disease is a situation where nitrite is preferentially bound to hemoglobin over oxygen - so the blood is oxygen deprived -- and the shrimp slowly die of a variety of organ failure and bacterial infections over a number of weeks. Replaced all of the shrimp in the now completely cycled tank.. used the careful drip method and had complete success. It took several months to work out the kinks and quite a bit of reading - but I got there. Now I'm not only enjoying hundreds of neo youngsters, but my new (this month) crystal babies are the cutest thing EVER! EDIT: forgot -- my Brother also had to find the secret combination. He could not keep shrimp alive no matter what. Turned out his perfect slightly acidic water was sitting in the copper pipes and leaching out copper. If the water ran awhile the pipes were purged of the water that had been stagnant accumulation Cu+ ions and would test with no copper. Now he has no problem keeping them alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyeGuy411 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Do you think it could still be the tap water if my neos were originally doing really well? I even had three berried at the same time at one point. At the time, I only had about 15 in there total. Another death this morning but I could see this one coming last night. He was hanging off some frogbit but really lethargic at the same time. This while the others munched on an amaranth leaf Tap water quality and composition varies especially during the change of seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyeGuy411 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 In some cases it's looking for your secret combination. I decided that even for Neos I would not allow a drop of tap water into my aquariums. Reasons for this go far beyond the things we KNOW are in tap water - it's because of the things we don't know about - such as estrogen compounds from and antibiotics from upstream farms and sewage treatment plants. These things are customarily reported or even tested for. Then there is the added fluoride and my shrimp don't need it - (no teeth). I wanted to start with a known quantity and go from there. To my surprise this didn't work at first. Molting problems. It turned out the using Seachem equilibrium only did not have all of the trace minerals the shrimp needed -- switched to Salty Shrimp and problem solved. Then there was the tank (I started with several) that had slow gradual death. I was stymied - ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate remained at zero once it was cycled - however I did rush the shrimp into the aquarium before it had completely cycled and I had a bit of nitrite <2ppm. for a bit. Finally I realized the shrimp had gotten brown blood disease when the nitrite was present. Brown Blood disease is a situation where nitrite is preferentially bound to hemoglobin over oxygen - so the blood is oxygen deprived -- and the shrimp slowly die of a variety of organ failure and bacterial infections over a number of weeks. Replaced all of the shrimp in the now completely cycled tank.. used the careful drip method and had complete success. It took several months to work out the kinks and quite a bit of reading - but I got there. Now I'm not only enjoying hundreds of neo youngsters, but my new (this month) crystal babies are the cutest thing EVER! EDIT: forgot -- my Brother also had to find the secret combination. He could not keep shrimp alive no matter what. Turned out his perfect slightly acidic water was sitting in the copper pipes and leaching out copper. If the water ran awhile the pipes were purged of the water that had been stagnant accumulation Cu+ ions and would test with no copper. Now he has no problem keeping them alive. Just FYI shrimp do not have hemoglobin their blood uses hemocyanin to bind oxygen. Which is why shrimp require trace amounts of copper in their diet. Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiris Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Use Ro water 59 cents a gallon at walmart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Just FYI shrimp do not have hemoglobin their blood uses hemocyanin to bind oxygen. Which is why shrimp require trace amounts of copper in their diet. Yepper. The copper carries the O2. RyeGuy411 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiris Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Wait...do you have shrimp deaths right after water change? How are you doing your water changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maylee Posted April 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 For now on, I should be doing my water changes with RO then? I don't suppose I need a re-mineraliser yet since it's mixing in with the tap water? If I were to start over, maybe even get a bigger tank, I'll try using nothing but RO water. Salty Shrimp seems to be a really popular choice. I see there's a gH+ version and a gH/kH version. Do I want the gH/kH version? No, I don't have deaths right after water changes. I've had three deaths in the past two days and I haven't done a water change since April 17th. I have a small bucket that I hold the tap water in and declorinate with prime. I leave it standing for a few days. I use a small python to suck up about 10% of the water in the tank. Then I pour in the prime conditioned water slowly over the course of an hour or so, meaning I just pour in a little bit over time. Keiris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiris Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 what are you feeding your shrimp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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