Aiden123 Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Hi everyone Like quite a few people here in the UK, when Borneowild produced its own substrate I joined on the band wagon. I always suspected that the soil had buffered my PH very low indeed compared to the desirable parameters for my TB's, CRS and CBS. I do know a few people who have had success with the substrate and I know others who didn't. My API liquid test kit only goes to 6.0 ph at the lowest and I was a bit wary of the accuracy of the ebay PH pens which you can get for between £5-£10. Today I picked up a JBL test 3.0-10.0 ph test kit, amongst other things in preparation to swap over the substrate after two years of being in the tank. I have tested the water and the result is an astonishing 4.5ph. The below PH range comparison chart really puts into perspective how low this is. My tank water is comparable to an acidic lake and all fish apparently die at 4.2 ph ( I am not sure of the accuracy of this). I do have 3 medium sized Indian Almond Leaves and some alder cones in the tank but I doubt they contribute to the PH level much in a 90 litre tank. I have always had difficulty with shrimp survival in this tank and always suspected that the PH was too low. Finally I have the evidence to back up my suspicions. The scary thing though is that the water reads 4.5 at the end of the substrates life when its buffering powers are very weak. I dread to think what the PH would have been after only a few months of set up. The issue I now have is that I have got a much less aggressive substrate (Dennerle Shrimp King Active Soil) which will buffer the PH to around 6.0 - 6.5ph. Even if I match the TDS, GH and KH of the new water to the old water, I envisage a very long re-acclimatization period due to the massive difference in the ph levels. I must stress that I am not trying to scare monger people into not purchasing Borneowild substrate in the future. As previously mentioned in this post I know people who have had success with it. I just wanted to share my experience and I feel slightly vindicated that at least some of my struggles with this tanks were down to the substrate and not my own personal failings at the hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Im taking a real quick guess here but how long has the leaves and cones been in the tank and how many cones ? I have been reading the threads from Tannin Aquatics and learning that leaves, pods,cones and wood can really change and affect water chemistry more than we thought. You might have to many leaves/cones in your size of tank. His website has a ton of information. One more thing, I know older tanks will see lower PH due to a build up of organic material in the substrate. You can get whats called "old tank syndrome" http://www.shrimpspot.com/index.php?/forum/48-tannin-aquatics/ http://tanninaquatics.com/ sarah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden123 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 I put them in the tank three days ago and I used about 6 cones. I have read the articles by Tannin Aquatics before and they are very helpful and informative. I concede that the leaves could have reduced the ph but would the amount of leaves and the time frame be enough for the release of chemicals to drastically lower the ph. I'm talking about a big change of 0.5-1.0. Even if this was possible, I would have thought that such a quick change would have effected the shrimps as well and caused some deaths, to which I have had none. If only a small PH change had occurred (say 0.1-0.4) that still means that the original ph was below 5 which is still dangerously low for my shrimps. Unfortunately I do not have a reliable ph reading before adding the leaves (as I only got the low range ph test kit today) so my submissions on the effects can only be theoretical. May be it could have been 'old tank syndrome'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Old tank syndrome caught me off guard before. ph in the 4's without buffering substrate. That was with fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrimpP Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 What's your KH? What's your Nitrates? How dark of a brown tinge is your tank water from the tannins? (if you are using Purigen or Activated Carbon it doesn't count) How old is the substrate? Was the substrate not causing any issues when new? Lot of excess mulm/detritus build up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 I put them in the tank three days ago and I used about 6 cones. I have read the articles by Tannin Aquatics before and they are very helpful and informative. I concede that the leaves could have reduced the ph but would the amount of leaves and the time frame be enough for the release of chemicals to drastically lower the ph. I'm talking about a big change of 0.5-1.0. Even if this was possible, I would have thought that such a quick change would have effected the shrimps as well and caused some deaths, to which I have had none. If only a small PH change had occurred (say 0.1-0.4) that still means that the original ph was below 5 which is still dangerously low for my shrimps. Unfortunately I do not have a reliable ph reading before adding the leaves (as I only got the low range ph test kit today) so my submissions on the effects can only be theoretical. May be it could have been 'old tank syndrome'. I think shrimp are tougher than what a lot of people make them out to be. They can take wide swings of water parameters without dying. They experience this in the wild, during shipping and so on. I have a BKK misch that is in my RCS tank doing just fine and I have no idea how it got in there. adrand and Soothing Shrimp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 The German breeders like to take low ph shrimp and over time adapt them to their water of 7+. I love that idea and think it would be good for the hobby in general. Can you imagine pintos, TB, and other cards not having to have buffered soil? ShrimpP, sarah and Vpier 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 The German breeders like to take low ph shrimp and over time adapt them to their water of 7+. I love that idea and think it would be good for the hobby in general. Can you imagine pintos, TB, and other cards not having to have buffered soil? Do it, Soothing! And put me on the wait list to buy some when you do Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Been thinking about this and its most likely a combination of things that is causing the PH to drop. Older tank, exhausted soil, build up of organic materials and the addition of materials that will affect PH. What is your nitrates, gh/kh? Are you using R/O? What is your PH after you remin the RO water? Did you have to add any buffering agents to lower your RO water? What type of remineralizer are you using? On the other hand I can be completely wrong and over complicating things and its the soil ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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