Decent price on Amazonia Soil

[Lyana]

So I'm thinking of restarting my prl tank because I'm having too much problems with it and I'm thinking of doing Amazonia (in a new 20 gallon) and moving them over because I'm not sure about controsoil anymore haha.

So it this a decent price?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00519832W?creativeASIN=B00519832W&linkCode=w00&linkId=ZPYIMZAT7LUQICHB&ref_=as_sl_pc_qf_sp_asin_til&tag=bionsh04-20

[jimko]

There's only 1-2 distributors in the US (AFA in SF being one of them), they send it off to a couple of retailers.  A couple of places sell their products.  Prices are set, undercutting is not allowed because it's a high end product. 

 

PM Han he might be able to give you more info or a better price shipped, but advertising it for less than what they are selling it for on the AFA will lead to them not allowing the retailer to carry their products.   

[Rivergardennursery]

I am working with them to try and start carrying ADA products. For the US, it all is from ADA San Fran. The price is set and fixed. Not a lot of wiggle room either. The real problem is shipping it from San Fran to the east cost, that eats up any hope for better pricing from a retailer on the east cost

[Vpier]

I am working with them to try and start carrying ADA products. For the US, it all is from ADA San Fran. The price is set and fixed. Not a lot of wiggle room either. The real problem is shipping it from San Fran to the east cost, that eats up any hope for better pricing from a retailer on the east cost

To bad they dont drop ship.

[EricM]

There's only 1-2 distributors in the US (AFA in SF being one of them), they send it off to a couple of retailers.  A couple of places sell their products.  Prices are set, undercutting is not allowed because it's a high end product. 

 

PM Han he might be able to give you more info or a better price shipped, but advertising it for less than what they are selling it for on the AFA will lead to them not allowing the retailer to carry their products.   

 

its actually a smart way of pricing. for example Apple, doesnt matter where you buy Apple products its always the same price.  its that way so dealers dont keep undercutting each other and in the long wrong hurt the over all business.  no relation to it being high/low end product.

 

shrimp prices...

in the past year+ new importers keep popping up and keep undercutting each other.  short term good for us as customers, but long term bad for everybody. importers can survive long now because they make pennies to the dollar they use to make, its hard for them to continue selling.  You have to sell hundreds of shrimp to make it worth the $/time/effort. what they should have done/start doing is worked together on pricing.  there are a few markets where sellers work together and set a market rate for prices, this really helps the over all business.

with shrimp prices are low as they are now, (main reason I stopped selling shrimp about a year ago) importers want to purchase them cheaper and cheaper so they can make $ to stay in business. 

if you were a breeder and you had multiple options to sell, one option wants a super low price, while another is wiling to pay you the price you feel is fair for the effort/time/$ you put into your products, which option would you go with? which option would you supply with the best quality?

 

I know when we wholesale to a few places we put in the contract that they are not allowed to sell below X price. If they want to run a special sale or etc,  I ask that they let me know before.  

 

As for soil from Han, really depends on who he's buying from and how much his price to his door costs him.  Like Rivergarden said, with soil things get expensive fast because of the size/weight. 

 

$48 shipped per bag of ADA isnt terrible. I'm curious how its shipped.  

[Soothing Shrimp]

I understand what you are saying about it being bad for importers, however there's several reasons why price fixing is illegal. One of them is to keep prices within reach of the average buyer. Another is that a competitive environment encourages sellers to offer the best service

I do agree there needs to be a solution though.

[OMG Aquatics]

Aqua Forest Aquarium for West Coast

 

Aquatic Garden for East Coast < New ADA Distributor 

[Lyana]

But Aqua Forest charges a lot of shipping, same price as Amazon for the product but shipping is $11.54 for me anyway

[jimko]

its actually a smart way of pricing. for example Apple, doesnt matter where you buy Apple products its always the same price.  its that way so dealers dont keep undercutting each other and in the long wrong hurt the over all business.  no relation to it being high/low end product.

 

shrimp prices...

in the past year+ new importers keep popping up and keep undercutting each other.  short term good for us as customers, but long term bad for everybody. importers can survive long now because they make pennies to the dollar they use to make, its hard for them to continue selling.  You have to sell hundreds of shrimp to make it worth the $/time/effort. what they should have done/start doing is worked together on pricing.  there are a few markets where sellers work together and set a market rate for prices, this really helps the over all business.

with shrimp prices are low as they are now, (main reason I stopped selling shrimp about a year ago) importers want to purchase them cheaper and cheaper so they can make $ to stay in business. 

if you were a breeder and you had multiple options to sell, one option wants a super low price, while another is wiling to pay you the price you feel is fair for the effort/time/$ you put into your products, which option would you go with? which option would you supply with the best quality?

 

I know when we wholesale to a few places we put in the contract that they are not allowed to sell below X price. If they want to run a special sale or etc,  I ask that they let me know before.  

 

As for soil from Han, really depends on who he's buying from and how much his price to his door costs him.  Like Rivergarden said, with soil things get expensive fast because of the size/weight. 

 

$48 shipped per bag of ADA isnt terrible. I'm curious how its shipped.  

 

A little off topic.   I like the discussion. 

 

If we go one more rung up I feel large scale breeding and production killed the market, too much surplus of shrimps overseas.  If there was less supply we wouldn't have these issues, everyone and their family converted from fish breeding into shrimp breeding (once they saw how much attention FU Shrimps, and Taiwan breeders were getting in the media and the money being made).  Breeding shrimps really isn't that difficult and it's a lot faster and cost effective then fish.  Pretty much everyone that had a commercial breeding facility jump on the trend.  There was no way to control drop in prices on shrimp.

 

With ADA and Apple it's just one company and their own products; they can control and lock prices and produce based on demand (off topic...best buy selling apple watch $249... probably need permission from Apple), There was a time when Fu (Original Breeder of Taiwan Bee) sold Blue Bolts for $500, now an dark blue bolts for $15.

 

Like any business, any one selling the same thing is taking money out of your pocket...competition (competition overseas and competition in the states).  Getting a lot of competitors to agree on pricing is losing battle, especially if there is a surplus of product.  Timing is really important, knowing when to go in and when to exit out.  Nick probably did it the smartest, in the end he probably realized the money wasn't as good when everyone started importing and it's time to jump ship. 

 

Right now there is no point in importing stuff readily available from breeders in the US.  It's impossible to get cheaper than hobbyist breeding shrimp at almost no cost and all profit.  I think it all comes down to supply and demand. 

[OMG Aquatics]

But Aqua Forest charges a lot of shipping, same price as Amazon for the product but shipping is $11.54 for me anyway

Aquatic Garden charges $30 for 9L Normal but currently out of stock.

[SoBlue98]

Here is how it's shipped, I just purchased it off amazon last week. Cheapest place I could find it.

[EricM]

Here is how it's shipped, I just purchased it off amazon last week. Cheapest place I could find it.

 

looks like flat rate box. thats pretty standard and fastest/best priced way to ship.

[Vpier]

I understand what you are saying about it being bad for importers, however there's several reasons why price fixing is illegal. One of them is to keep prices within reach of the average buyer. Another is that a competitive environment encourages sellers to offer the best service

I do agree there needs to be a solution though.

I use to be the third largest paintball dealer on the internet. There was one paintball gun manufacture that tried to enforce MAP pricing. The largest dealer went to court over this and won. Judge had declared it was a form of price fixing. That was 15 years ago.  Not sure how the courts view it now.  Number two dealer wanted to be number one so they offered me a deal I couldn't refuse.  Fastest way to hate what you love is making it into a business.

[Lyana]

Aquatic Garden charges $30 for 9L Normal but currently out of stock.

Really? I just lookwant d and it said $39.99 and in stock for the new bagg stuff

[EricM]

A little off topic.   I like the discussion. 

 

If we go one more rung up I feel large scale breeding and production killed the market, too much surplus of shrimps overseas.  If there was less supply we wouldn't have these issues, everyone and their family converted from fish breeding into shrimp breeding (once they saw how much attention FU Shrimps, and Taiwan breeders were getting in the media and the money being made).  Breeding shrimps really isn't that difficult and it's a lot faster and cost effective then fish.  Pretty much everyone that had a commercial breeding facility jump on the trend.  There was no way to control drop in prices on shrimp.

 

With ADA and Apple it's just one company and their own products; they can control and lock prices and produce based on demand (off topic...best buy selling apple watch $249... probably need permission from Apple), There was a time when Fu (Original Breeder of Taiwan Bee) sold Blue Bolts for $500, now an dark blue bolts for $15.

 

Like any business, any one selling the same thing is taking money out of your pocket...competition (competition overseas and competition in the states).  Getting a lot of competitors to agree on pricing is losing battle, especially if there is a surplus of product.  Timing is really important, knowing when to go in and when to exit out.  Nick probably did it the smartest, in the end he probably realized the money wasn't as good when everyone started importing and it's time to jump ship. 

 

Right now there is no point in importing stuff readily available from breeders in the US.  It's impossible to get cheaper than hobbyist breeding shrimp at almost no cost and all profit.  I think it all comes down to supply and demand. 

 

its a great topic!!  

I agree in part about everybody saw the price of shrimp and lots of farms popped up. Same thing is happening in the USA now, more and more importers, more and more sellers. Nic for sure got out at the right time, but he also partly started the undercutting. Nicky was the first large scale successful seller (we all know what happened there), then Nic took over and had the run of the market for a while till other importers started and thus began the QUICK slide down of the prices. BKK went from $150 - $20 within a year!

 

Since getting back from my Taiwan Breeder visit and seeing the prices the big farms offer, it cant be touched by any USA breeders. We (USA) have no full time breeders doing it for a living.  Without giving away too much info... the largest name brand breeders source from basically the same few farms, and if those farms cant supply at that moment they call one of their friends farms.  The co-operation was eye opening.  

 

 

I use to be the third largest paintball dealer on the internet. There was one paintball gun manufacture that tried to enforce MAP pricing. The largest dealer went to court over this and won. Judge had declared it was a form of price fixing. That was 15 years ago.  Not sure how the courts view it now.  Number two dealer wanted to be number one so they offered me a deal I couldn't refuse.  Fastest way to hate what you love is making it into a business.

 

MAP is "suggested" now, sorta enforced, but its a slippery slope. just like with shrimp/etc prices, sellers undercutting each other for a quick buck and in the long run hurts everybody when they cant make enough $ to stay in business with minimal markup, then want cheaper from their supplier.... .snowball.

 

one of the biggest reasons why USA doesnt many of these high end nice shrimp is because prices dropped so fast, importers cant afford to get the nice shrimp, usa buyers wont pay what they are really worth.  I keep going back to my example about japanese shrimp buyers.  A recent single PRL from Crimson Japan went for like $1800+.  

 

great topic. hope we can keep chatting about it. 

[OMG Aquatics]

Really? I just lookwant d and it said $39.99 and in stock for the new bagg stuff

Aquatic Garden != AFA

 

http://aquatic-garden.com/collections/substrate/products/aqua-soil-amazonia-9-liters-normal

[Rivergardennursery]

I also am enjoying this topic, and I might try the east cost distribution for ADA, thank you. I have been selling Goldfish and Koi for a very long time. I have seen first hand how many over seas fish breeders have converted to shrimp from Goldfish.

I do like the standard same price or fixed price for hard goods. It keeps the playing field even, and relies more on customer service and building good realtionships. I currently have serveral thousands of dollars of Fluval, and Laguna products at my shop. I can not move these items due to Amazon and Dr. Smith and Fosters. They have regular sales and discounts that are below wholesale prices. I have fluval LED lights that I have paid 85.00 each for (before shipping), and you can go to Amazon and buy them for 79.00 with free shipping. Customer Service and Knowledgment of products are no longer a very large factor for sales. Today the manufacturer and breeders are selling more and more direct to customers and or Amazon. Most Koi and Goldfish breeders now sell direct to customers, just as most manufacturers sell direct to Amazon and they do not worry any longer if a shop owner or retail is representing the products well, or helping to promote the their products

Please understand, I buy a lot of items from Amazon and It's just the way business is moving now, not complaining but just pointing things out. I have no issues with the new economy, but I do enjoy buying unique items straight from hobbiest and small business owners, but those are only for very small niche products or services.

And just for the record, I have to have my "real" or daytime job just to afford my Goldfish, Koi, Pond, and Shrimp Job. I honestly do not think one could make a living selling Goldfish, Koi, or Shrimp full time in the US

[jumpsmasher]

as one of the few specialty shrimp dealer who is also a full line ADA dealer (might even be the only one) I seen the prices of ADA soil gone up a bit on the last while but not as much as it has in the US.  I know ADA Japan raised their Amazonia prices by 20% earlier this year but here in Canada the Canadian distributor decided to only increase it by 10% to remain competitive.  At one point they were much cheaper in the US (even when the exchange rate was close to par) but now with the way the Canadian dollar is it works out for be quite a bit less.

 

For example, I sell them for $40 Cdn for a 9L bag which works out to be a bit under $30 US.  The MSRP here is $45 but here in Canada MAP pricing is illegal and I set my prices to match whatever the other dealers are selling them for. 

 

As for shrimp prices, it is not as bad here in Canada, as there is only a few players but the market is much smaller so it is less "cut throat" but much lower volume as well.  But currently my model is not so much about moving volume but rather building relationship and the "skill level" of my customers.  There are are definitely some very skilled and serious shrimpers here, the market for high end shrimps is something that one has to build from the ground up.  

 

for the high end stuff i only bring in shrimps i want for my own projects or ones that my customer ask for; again very different approach from the US in that regards but one that works for my market and client base.  

[mayphly]

$39.99 is what I pay for it at AFA. Basically your paying just for shipping. $8.00 to ship a 9L bag of dirt is not a bad price at all.

[Wygglz]

I guess I don't really understand the whole undercutting mentality. For example, to take a strain members are familiar with, if I buy Nessies from Soothing, for $50.00 each, it seems it would really destroy relations for me to start my colony then turn around and sell them for $5.00 each. He'd be crazy to want to sell to me again! And seriously, why would I want to if the market will support $50.00? If I undercut Soothing I'm basically saying that his years of work are worth nothing to me, when I'm profiting of of all of his education, time, and determination. In addition, I'm single handedly taking a "high end" strain and instantly making it a Walmart Special which eliminates a ton of my profits as well. I know when I bought my shrimp, I was looking for some of the hardest to find neos and tigers. While I would like to make them more available through breeding efforts, I don't want to devalue them. That would just be silly!

[jumpsmasher]

I guess I don't really understand the whole undercutting mentality. For example, to take a strain members are familiar with, if I buy Nessies from Soothing, for $50.00 each, it seems it would really destroy relations for me to start my colony then turn around and sell them for $5.00 each. He'd be crazy to want to sell to me again! And seriously, why would I want to if the market will support $50.00? If I undercut Soothing I'm basically saying that his years of work are worth nothing to me, when I'm profiting of of all of his education, time, and determination. In addition, I'm single handedly taking a "high end" strain and instantly making it a Walmart Special which eliminates a ton of my profits as well. I know when I bought my shrimp, I was looking for some of the hardest to find neos and tigers. While I would like to make them more available through breeding efforts, I don't want to devalue them. That would just be silly!

 

Well usually those who drive prices down are those who are looking for a quick turnaround; if they import strictly for resell they are trying to recoup their costs (and tank space) for another import.  if they are hobby breeders sometimes their intentions is to just free up space.  One thing I try to do is to work with local breeders and "convert" them to be my suppliers - it is a win-win situation for both parties; they get to move their surplus shrimps quickly and a bit of income without have to deal with every individual that only want a handful of shrimps while i get access to locally bred shrimps and I can use my limited tank space to focus on other projects.  In fact most of my local breeders are some of my best customers and i helped most of them get started when they were starting out with shrimps. it is a business model you see used in places like Japan (i.e Lowkey) and even someone like Michael Nadal.

 

In the states it would seem everyone is out to crave out their own place in the market and it will be tough especially if everything is treating it like a classified ad and trying to sell out what they have on hand - as the popular saying goes - it is a race to zero and it definitely burned out lots of sellers. 

[Wygglz]

Too bad we are across borders, that is exactly what I wish I had. Love breeding, raising, and working toward selective strains but SO don't want to do the selling. But there are no retailers that I know of in MT.

[jumpsmasher]

Too bad we are across borders, that is exactly what I wish I had. Love breeding, raising, and working toward selective strains but SO don't want to do the selling. But there are no retailers that I know of in MT.

 

Where in Montana are you located? Just make the occasional drive up to Calgary. We are not that far from each other

[Wygglz]

I love Calgary area!