nicpapa Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 Hi there. Im curius , how stable are yours shimprs ? I saw that after a lot of shirmps come to lower grade . In neos orange, when i bought those have a good orange, after a lot of genes , some shrimps are rili , some transparent, i saw some reds, and some have red dots on the body. Now mostly are like yellows, and not orange. In snowballs,i get some blues and brown colors. In Yellows , transparent,rili and lower yellows. In topaz , i have some chocolate and some lower blues. So i think that the breeders just select the beter colors, and not made the color genes Purplepanda and Soothing Shrimp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oem Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 I am definitely no shrimp expert, but in my tomato breeding program(15 yrs) my strains are as stable as they can be. However due to recessive genes still in my seeds an oddball shows up most years. These oddballs are not saved for seed. They may be just as good as the rest but I want my tomato's with less seed and juice and more "meat". This is why in plants cuttings/grafting are the only way to get the same tomato, grapes,figs, ect. Even then those genes are still in the plant tissue. I was just reading one of our sponsors (Discobee) blog yesterday about MK selectively breeding shrimp which is very helpful. josu2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplepanda Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 From my limited experience it seems with almost all ornamental shrimp you need to breed selectively to some degree otherwise you will gradually downgrade in quality and the scales will tip towards not so attractive shrimps, well to human eyes anyway, as they naturally revert to their original and wilder forms. After all the shrimp hobby/craze was born when we created these invert hybrids through selective breeding and now we have the challenge of keeping up with it. That's the fun and secret of the hobby ! This is the case with all my shrimp varieties bar the TBs it seems.. Shrimp Life and Soothing Shrimp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETAquarium Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 It seems to me that Caridina species are very stable for the most part, but Neos are quite the contrary when attempting to keep coloration or opaqueness along the same lines. I think the primary problem are the people that come up with new mutations or colors. They find a new color breed the shrimp out and instead of stabilizing the strain, they sell immediately to make a buck. Soothing Shrimp and nicpapa 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplepanda Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 3 hours ago, oem said: 5 hours ago, nicpapa said: So i think that the breeders just select the beter colors, and not made the color genes. Yes agree, I would suggest if you order say CRS SSS, the breeder selects the SSS from his CRS higher grade tanks where there will certainly be a mixture of grades, perhaps not As and Cs but many not as high quality as SSS. Unlikely that he has tank of just SSS. It goes without saying that when your SSS breed you will get a variety of grades, but hopefully a higher percentage of SSS given your starting point. Ever bought Bloody Mary neos by mail order ? It seems standard for the breeders to also include some crappy low grade ones even when you are paying top $ for Bloody Mary ! nicpapa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMG Aquatics Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 @oem Are the low grades actually males? I recently found out that because US customers complain sometimes about the color of neos they receive, most exporters will only ship females because it's top notch coloration whereas male neos are ugly and poor in color. I assume this probably happened a lot before exporter changed to shipping only females or mainly just females. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicpapa Posted April 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 7 hours ago, DETAquarium said: It seems to me that Caridina species are very stable for the most part, but Neos are quite the contrary when attempting to keep coloration or opaqueness along the same lines. I think the primary problem are the people that come up with new mutations or colors. They find a new color breed the shrimp out and instead of stabilizing the strain, they sell immediately to make a buck. Yes i have caridinas, and those are stable for 2-3 years ... i keep a mix of rcs a -sss and snowthites, never get a diferent grade. Also sullawesi shrimps are very stable. I dont know what breeders do , but im disappointing ... I bought topaz shrimps, 90 euro 10 shrimps , from 10 one is the female, and you can see brown and light blue. Think when shrimps population raise what i must to see... I cant have two tanks , and selective breeds for one species... What are you doing for keep shrimps gene same colors? Remove the ugly? Have two tanks and select? Or use a breeder box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicpapa Posted April 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 I saw some bloody marys in usa tanks ... Bloody mary came from chocolate and have diferents from sakura. There they mix sakura with bloody marys. http://imgur.com/AJA57z0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETAquarium Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 16 hours ago, nicpapa said: What are you doing for keep shrimps gene same colors? Remove the ugly? Have two tanks and select? Or use a breeder box? Honestly I don't do very much. Yes I cull occasionally, but ultimately I have bred all of my Taiwan Bees from 10. I haven't crossed them with anything aside from my Pinto Project which I have separated from the primary colonies. I started with 10 quality Taiwan Bees and haven't had to look back, that coupled with a good diet and clean water. Purplepanda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicpapa Posted April 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 49 minutes ago, DETAquarium said: Honestly I don't do very much. Yes I cull occasionally, but ultimately I have bred all of my Taiwan Bees from 10. I haven't crossed them with anything aside from my Pinto Project which I have separated from the primary colonies. I started with 10 quality Taiwan Bees and haven't had to look back, that coupled with a good diet and clean water. Taiwan bee is a diferent story... I dont think that it can be an ugly shrimps from this species. Purplepanda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 On 4/28/2016 at 7:24 AM, DETAquarium said: It seems to me that Caridina species are very stable for the most part, but Neos are quite the contrary when attempting to keep coloration or opaqueness along the same lines. I think the primary problem are the people that come up with new mutations or colors. They find a new color breed the shrimp out and instead of stabilizing the strain, they sell immediately to make a buck. Yes! I couldn't agree more!!!! Instead of putting in the time to stabilize, they immediately select and sell. Same with some of the newer cards showing up now. (Sounds like your Topaz are what we call Blue Diamonds.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrimpybuisness Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 I started with Red Rilis a while back and now they are throwing full PFR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplepanda Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 On 4/29/2016 at 2:17 PM, DETAquarium said: Honestly I don't do very much. Yes I cull occasionally, but ultimately I have bred all of my Taiwan Bees from 10. I haven't crossed them with anything aside from my Pinto Project which I have separated from the primary colonies. I started with 10 quality Taiwan Bees and haven't had to look back, that coupled with a good diet and clean water. Yes agree as have had a similar experience, started off with about 30 Tbs imported form Germany some great quality there including a couple of blue pandas and extreme king kongs and now have a couple of hundred.. no green hulks unfortunately.. wish I could manufacture these ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicpapa Posted May 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 4 hours ago, shrimpybuisness said: I started with Red Rilis a while back and now they are throwing full PFR PFR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicpapa Posted May 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 On 29/4/2016 at 4:33 PM, Soothing Shrimp said: Yes! I couldn't agree more!!!! Instead of putting in the time to stabilize, they immediately select and sell. Same with some of the newer cards showing up now. (Sounds like your Topaz are what we call Blue Diamonds.) If that graph is corect... Topaz made from diamond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrimpybuisness Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 PFR? Painted Fire Reds Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk nicpapa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrimpP Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 5 hours ago, nicpapa said: If that graph is corect... Topaz made from diamond. I was informed that graph has some inaccuracies and Blue Dreams/Topaz were developed from Blue Carbons. EDIT: woops. Looks like that chart is creating more confusion? Chart says Topaz is a synonym to Blue Dreams. From the OP's offspring from his "Topaz" shrimp, it sounds like they are Blue Diamonds and the name "Topaz" is a incorrect label. I was told Blue Diamond came from Chocolate Diamonds (which offspring can revert back to), hence why it sounds like the OP's "Topaz" shrimp are actually Blue Diamonds (which is what I think Soothing was trying to say). Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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