marian4232 Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Hello guys, My name is Marian. I have started keeping shrimp in 2015. Yesterday i have started having problems (neocaridina shrimp started dying a lot) and i am trying to find a reason. Here is my setup: I have started the project in October 2015. 3 tanks 90x43x40 (split in 3). In total there are 9 smaller tanks (they don't communicate with each other) Filtration is the same for every tank: undergravel filter with Red Bee Sand and double sponge filter Lighting is the same for every tank: LED stripes I am using only RO water with Salty Shrimp GH+, 25% weekly water change. I am using Glas Garten and CSF food. 1st tank has CRS and CBS (some berried females) 2nd tank has Panda, Blue bolt, Red Bee spotted head (and also some babies) 3rd tank has Yellow neocaridina 4th tank has Sakura SS neocaridina (almost all females were berried) 5th tank has Chocolate neocaridina (some berried females) 6th tank has Blue fairy neocaridina (some berried females) 7th tank has Tigers (some berried females) 8th tank has Super Crystal red 9th tank has some neocaridina culls Water parameters are very similar for all tanks: pH: 6.7-6.8 GH: 5-6 KH: 0 Temperature: 22 degrees NO2 and NH3: 0 NO3: 5 - 10 ppm TDS: 140-150 Everything was good until yesterday. Here is what i have done yesterday: - added 3-4 alder cones to each tank (i have used alder cones from the same batch in the past with no problems ) - added one oak dried leaf in each tank (i have oak leaves from the same batch in the past with no problems) - added one dried walnut leaf to the Sakura SS tank (the leaf was collected from the parking lot where i live. I have never used them) - made a mix for the 1st time with Glasgarten Bacter AE, Glasgarten Betaglucan, Genchem Astaxanthin and one Glasgarten Artemia pad (i crushed it and made it powder). I have mixed the powders with aquarium water and i have dosed the resulting liquid in all 9 tanks. - i received 10 goldfish for a client and i have introduced them temporarily to a tank in my home (a different tank) After 2-3 hours of doing all the above, i have started to see shrimp dying in the Sakura SS tank (all the others were fine at that time). I made 2 water changes in the tank hopping that i might save them. I was wrong. After 2 or 3 hours more, same symptoms started to show in the other neocaridina tanks. CRS, CBS, Taiwans, Tigers and Super Crystal red are all fine. The affected shrimp swim like crazy like there is something affecting them. I can see that the muscles under the shell for yellow and blue neocaridina is turning white. It's like they are trying to move but their muscles are tight. What could i have done wrong? When i first saw that only the Sakura SS were dying i thought that the walnut leaf from the parking lot was the culprit, but soon other neocaridina started showing the same symptoms. I removed the walnut leaf from the Sakura SS tank and also all the oak leaves from each tank. Could it be the alder cones and the oak leaves to suddenly drop the pH (i didn't test the pH yesterday but today it's 6.7-6.8 like it used to be every time. The active soil keeps the pH stable) Could it be the mix with Bacter AE and Betaglucan? I have recently read the following instructions from Glasgarten for Betaglucan: " We recommend a few hours before and after feeding give no other food, in order to optimally exploit the effect of betaglucan." I have rarely used these products (Bacter AE and Betaglucan) for neocaridina shrimp because i know they are not that sensitive. I have mostly used them for Caridina and Tigers. Could the goldfish be carriers for a bacteria that they are immune to? I may have introduced this bacteria in the shrimp tanks. I don't have air freshers in the room and i have not used any perfumes. What bothers me even more, why only the neocaridina tanks have been affected? At this moment, 90% of Sakura SS shrimp are dead and the rest are trying to survive. Yellow and blue neocaridina shrimp are not good either (more than 50-60 % died and the rest are strugling to survive). Chocolate neocaridina are not affected that much but i feel that they will soon start dying like the others. What do you guys think? Here is a video. This picture has been taken in 2015 before introducing shrimp in the tanks. Thank you for trying to help me find a possible reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrand Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Did you boil the leaves and alder cones prior to introduction into the tanks? I would be nervous about leaves from a parking lot personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marian4232 Posted May 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 No, i didn't boil them. This was not the 1st time using dry leaves and alder cones directly in the aquarium and i considered that this should not be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMG Aquatics Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 The leaf from the parking lot was not a good idea. It's best to boil alder cones and dry leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marian4232 Posted May 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 I agree. But where is the logic here? Why did the other neocaridina in the other tanks started dying if i used only one leaf in the Sakura SS tank which i removed after 2-3 hours? Why are all the caridina and tiger shrimp OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMG Aquatics Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Not sure about the yellow but it looks like your tank has no covers? It is possible that air bubbles pop and splashes some into the next tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marian4232 Posted May 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Yes, the tanks have no covers. There are bubbles that pop and splash the neighbor tanks. The yellow shrimp are one level higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jem_xxiii Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 I cannot really help you with your problem, but your planted tank is amazing and I thought I should share that! svetilda, Kat, DarkSeas and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marian4232 Posted May 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 That was not it's best period but thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrand Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Any possibility of a cleaning product being sprayed in the same room or did someone vacuum in that room? Shrimp Life 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibebian Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Video was painful to watch, sorry this is happening [emoji45] It seems as though some highly toxic substance was somehow introduced into the tanks. Leaves from parking lot may have vehicle oils and/or particulate matter. It is strange that neos are affected and the caridina are not. Is this still the case? Shrimp Life 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimple minded Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Often times the quick/massive die-offs people eventually trace back to some sort of contamination that occurred via hands or air (vacuums, powders, sprays, insecticides, etc.) Are the affected tanks the only ones that you accessed yesterday with your hands? Amazing setups BTW, really love the moss structures. I'm hopeful you can find a solution to the issue. Welcome to TSS. sarah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrimpybuisness Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 First off i would like to tell you that your Shrimp Setup is Amazing, but I am guessing that there is a chance the leaves you added could have gotten some sort of pesticide on them and are killing your shrimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Do you have cats or other pets? Any chance flea or tick medication got in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanW Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Looks like it has something to do with the location of the tanks? That is your caridina tanks are in upper left and not effected while others are effected? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimp Life Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 ahhhh! I'm so sorry to see this happen. Did you pinpoint the issue? Look like something very potent got into the tank.. did you use any of the same nets or buckets or equiptment from the goldfish intro, when you mixed that stuff and put it in the tanks. Maybe something to do with the goldfish - with copper poisoning the shrimp will start dropping dead. If there was any copper in the goldfish water- if you introduce even a small amount it would be fatal to the tank. Maybe try seachem cuprisorb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dao Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Sorry for your loss. Looks like some kind of toxins got into the tank. As others mentioned, the unboiled leaf might be the reason if somehow the polluted water got into other tanks. In any case if there is still anything to save i would try active carbon or similar products. Kat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimpie Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Have you always fed Genchem Astaxanthin to your neos? I understand that product can affect the color of neos and I am wondering if that can also cause this problem you are having since it is only the neos that are affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimp Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Awesome Dutch Scape btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miwu Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Most likely it is something from the walnut leaf since your sakura shrimps got affected first. The other shrimps got affected later because of lower toxin concentration or contamination at a later time. My guess: 1. This toxic substance only affects neocaridinas. It may have gotten into every tank if you used a pipette to feed the liquid food mix and dipped the pipette into each tank. The "tank water" you used to create the mix can also be the culprit. 2. The toxin was somehow only spread to other neocaridina tanks. For example, you may have two nets, one for caridinas and one for neocaridinas. Good luck. I hope you find the root of this problem and keep up the great work with your amazing tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marian4232 Posted June 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 On 5/12/2016 at 8:48 PM, adrand said: Any possibility of a cleaning product being sprayed in the same room or did someone vacuum in that room? No. Everyone in the house is aware of the fact the sprays can affect my shrimp. If this was the case, all the shrimp would have been affected. I do all the nasty work that involves dangerous fumes (silicone, paint, etc) in other rooms. On 5/12/2016 at 11:24 PM, ibebian said: Video was painful to watch, sorry this is happening It seems as though some highly toxic substance was somehow introduced into the tanks. Leaves from parking lot may have vehicle oils and/or particulate matter. It is strange that neos are affected and the caridina are not. Is this still the case? No. After 1-2 weeks i started seeing deaths in caridina and tiger tanks also. On 5/13/2016 at 0:09 AM, Shrimple minded said: Often times the quick/massive die-offs people eventually trace back to some sort of contamination that occurred via hands or air (vacuums, powders, sprays, insecticides, etc.) Are the affected tanks the only ones that you accessed yesterday with your hands? Amazing setups BTW, really love the moss structures. I'm hopeful you can find a solution to the issue. Welcome to TSS. After 1-2 weeks shrimp from other tanks started dying also. I don't remember what tanks have been accesed with my hands. On 5/13/2016 at 3:25 AM, sarah said: Do you have cats or other pets? Any chance flea or tick medication got in? I have a cat and a dog but i haven't used any medication on them this year. On 5/13/2016 at 9:19 PM, dazalea said: ahhhh! I'm so sorry to see this happen. Did you pinpoint the issue? Look like something very potent got into the tank.. did you use any of the same nets or buckets or equiptment from the goldfish intro, when you mixed that stuff and put it in the tanks. Maybe something to do with the goldfish - with copper poisoning the shrimp will start dropping dead. If there was any copper in the goldfish water- if you introduce even a small amount it would be fatal to the tank. Maybe try seachem cuprisorb. I don't share shrimp equipment with other tanks. I don't think it was copper. On 5/17/2016 at 8:37 AM, Shrimpie said: Have you always fed Genchem Astaxanthin to your neos? I understand that product can affect the color of neos and I am wondering if that can also cause this problem you are having since it is only the neos that are affected. Yes, i have been feeding this for a long time. On 5/17/2016 at 9:44 AM, Shrimp said: Awesome Dutch Scape btw. Thanks :). On 5/20/2016 at 4:25 AM, miwu said: Most likely it is something from the walnut leaf since your sakura shrimps got affected first. The other shrimps got affected later because of lower toxin concentration or contamination at a later time. My guess: 1. This toxic substance only affects neocaridinas. It may have gotten into every tank if you used a pipette to feed the liquid food mix and dipped the pipette into each tank. The "tank water" you used to create the mix can also be the culprit. 2. The toxin was somehow only spread to other neocaridina tanks. For example, you may have two nets, one for caridinas and one for neocaridinas. Good luck. I hope you find the root of this problem and keep up the great work with your amazing tanks. The walnut leaf was introduced only in the sakura tank. I might have taken the water for the mix, from the sakura ss tank. I didn't think of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marian4232 Posted June 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 Here is the update. After the incident, intereating things have happened. After 1 week i started losing shrimp from other tanks also: crs, cbs, spotted head hybrids, taiwans, tigers, scr. Only a few died 10-20% compared to the neocaridina incident. In the same time, a lot of sakura ss and chocolate babies started showing from the substrate. They weren't affected. They grew and they are still growing. I am glad that i still have stock to work with. The dying has stopped in 3-4 weeks after the incident. Now i have babies in most tanks and all are doing good. I stopped dosing Bacter AE. I threw away the forest oak leaves collected by me far away from the civilisation. This incident made me super paranoia. Now, i wash my hands every time i acces the shrimp tanks. I have also became more careful when it comes to shrimp equipment. Thanks for all your help. Might i ask what can i do to improve caridina baby survival rates? Thank you once again. Kat and svetilda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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