New to Shrimp and Shrimp Spot

[Art by Stef*]

Hiya! Stef here. 40 something, Aquarius on the cusp of Pisces. Painter of, but hope to be, a keeper of shrimp.

I have killed every shrimp that passed through these doorways. (also caught and eaten quite a few, but that is for Shrimp-Hits-The-Spot Recipe Forums)

I have managed to keep bamboo shrimp alive for a max of 6 months. (Don't really know their lifespan, or how old they were when I got them)

I have gotten Cherry Shrimp that were raised in a slop bucket. Put them in what I thought would be at the very least "moving on up" environment. Died in a week. Got "Super Hardy Yellows" off Bay of E. Same deal. 10 cent ghost shrimp disappear in a species only tank of just them. Tried various conditions, tanks, bowls and buckets.

 

I, and Darkcobra (Partner in crime and Chef Extraordinaire of shrimps) are willing to try again, under the advice and information of this lovely site.

 

Thank you Bryce (Soothing Shrimp) for turning us on to this site, and renewing our interest in non edible shrimp!

 

-Stef*

(waves at Merth)

 

 

[Soothing Shrimp]

LOL  What a great intro!  Great to see you made it here, gal.  We're going to see if we can get you turned into a shrimper yet!

[Merth]

Heya Stef, welcome!

[myklt8]

Welcome

I had high quality Cherries off ebay...just disappeared, the only other thing was nerites, this is the tank I made sure all the params were right

threw 4 rescued from the filter that a friend gave me into the kids play tank...had one batch of shrimplets and now I have 4 about to pop and 2 more not far behind them.

new yellow neos and green cardia in the "good" tank have fared well for a couple of weeks now

[mosspearl]

Welcome, Stef! Good to see you here!

[OblongShrimp]

Great to have you!   Were you trying tap water or were you using RO water?  It is possible your tap water has something nasty in it that the shrimp don't like copper or some heavy metals.

[Soothing Shrimp]

While water conditioner (Prime) will neutralize heavy metals, it won't touch copper if I remember correctly.

[Art by Stef*]

Thanks! Y'all make a person feel welcome

 

The water I used was from existing well cycled aquariums.

(Darkcobra is going to list all the specs on it soon.)

Temp was 75-78 degrees, if I recall correctly.

I was feeding Hikari Tropical Shrimp Cuisine. 

Copper IS listed as an ingredient (?)

I wanted so much to feed blanched veggies and other fun shrimpy stuff, but never got that far.

 

The cherry shrimp I first tried were from someone who raised them in a bucket and never fed them.

The water stunk, and he claimed he would fill it right from the tap if it got too low.

Claimed they bred like rabbits and were indestructible. 

Quite a few were berried when I got them.

Maybe they didn't know how to act in a proper environment, couldn't acclimate, and died?

 

So, tried again with the low scale ghost shrimp. They were from a LFS tank, in with the feeder guppies.

No go-disappeared over a weeks time.

 

Tried Cherries from a better breeder and split them up in a few different set-ups, all planted.

Same deal.

 

Figured maybe you get what you pay for and tried the "Super Hardy" yellow ones.

Again put in two different settings, and again, all died. One lil fella, a sole survivor, did cling on for 2 weeks when I put him in a bowl with some lucky bamboo. 

 

I don't know. All signs lead to the water, since that is what all had in common.

Wrote it off as shrimp are not in my future, just on my plate. 

Hope to figure this out before I try again.

I don't want to be a shrimp slayer.

I always dreamed of the Candy Cane looking shrimp (CRS), but heard tell of how difficult shrimping can be with them, so started with inexpensive species.

 

-Stef*

[Merth]

No gh in our water Stef leads to molting issues and finally death

[Soothing Shrimp]

Let me address some of your questions.

 

up to 75 degrees is good.  Yes, shrimp can live in 78 and beyond (and I've kept mine in water up to 84 before). The higher temperature you keep your shrimp at, the faster the life cycle, and you run the risk of bacterial infections and faster death.

 

Think of this equation:

 

L + T = K

 

L= Shrimp Life

T= Temperature

K= constant

 

In order for K to remain the same, L and T are on a tettor totter.  If one goes up, the other goes down and visa versa.

 

--

Copper in most foods (and shrimp foods) and fine.  Shrimp uses copper in their blood to carry O2, so they must have it for their bodies to work correctly.  It is when medications are used- usually for fish- that contain copper that it becomes dangerous or lethal.  The ingredient for getting rid of snails in an aquarium for instance is copper.  Since it kills snails- which are inverts- it will kill your pet inverts (shrimp) too.

--

Shrimp from a bad environment are often not healthy.  The thing is- it takes them time to die.  So what may look as hardy shrimp in a bad environment, often is unhealthy shrimp slowly passing away. 

 

Ghost shrimp from the pet store often don't live very long since most are collected wild and care is neglected since they are to be used as feeders.

 

As shrimpers, shrimp are a little more sensitive than fish.  So we take special care to look at TDS, Gh, Ph, Kh, as well as regular fish params.  Unfortunately some of these tests are not included in a regular freshwater master kit, and strips go bad quickly giving inaccurate information- so liquid tests are preferred.

 

Some shrimpers use tap with water conditioner, however sometimes things sneak into the tap that fish can handle but are problematic for shrimp.  To get around this many shrimpers use RO (even bottled from the local food store) and remineralize with this.  There's a smaller size too and also other remineralizers out there. Oblongshrimp on here sells Salty Shrimp gh/kh which may be more beneficial for neos, however I've not tried it yet.

 

Some general params for cherry shrimp:

PH: 7+

KH: 0 – 10

GH: 6+

TDS: 100-200+

Water temp: 70-75F

 

There's people who have successful colonies different from those params, but listed is kind of the avg. people do.

---

Acclimation is different from acclimating fish.  Here's a good link to see how it is done:

http://www.shrimpnow.com/content.php/258-Acclimatising-Shrimp

---

I see you said planted tanks.  Do you use ferts or CO2?  Shrimp, in general, do not do well with CO2 or ferts in the water.  There are some who have managed it, but most of us do very low tech for the shrimp to do well.

---

Cherry shrimp come in many different varieties of colors and are one of the hardiest to learn with since they can take "Oops" a whole lot better than the more sensitive shrimps.  (Yellows and Blue Diamonds are very sensitive as far as neos go.  I lost hundreds of dollars on yellows, and had to develop my own strain- but that's a post for a different day. heh) 

 

Hopefully this answers some questions?

[Darkcobra]

I'm the "parameter guy" in this household.  Was going to post a separate "help meee!" thread so as to not hijack Stef's intro.  But I see we've already begun, so might as well carry on here. 

 

I'm providing as much info as I can up front, broken down by section.  The last section has my plans and questions, you might want to skip down to that and refer up as needed.

 

 

Previous Shrimp Experiences:

 

Ghost:  The plain feeders from the LFS.  They turn white, then die, living no more than two weeks tops.  Addition of two drops Kent Marine Iodine per 10G weekly extends lifespan to months.  Seems controversial, a lot of people have stated this does nothing at best, or will kill them at worst.  Or is functioning as a sterilant to kill bacteria, which is an interesting idea, though it's ~100X less than any dose typically recommended for that purpose.  But it's repeatable, I've tried several times with and without, and always got the same result.  I usually use it with other shrimp, just in case, but some very limited tests seems to indicate no effect, good or bad, on them.

 

Bamboo:  Lifespan 3-9 months.  We've always picked the largest ones we could find, so maybe they're elderly bamboos to start with.  They successfully molt several times.  One did it literally in the blink of an eye, just jumped right out of its old shell faster than we could see - we both happened to be looking right at it at the time and it was amazing.  Death is typically accompanied with a dark, bruise-like spot somewhere on the body.  Excluding an accidental death of known cause (sorry Shrimpzilla).

 

Cherry/Amano:  A few perish immediately.  Most are gone by two weeks.  All are gone within a month.  Corpses rarely found.

 

 

Typical Parameters:

 

Temperature:  Room temps are maintained between 72-74F.  Tanks may a degree or two higher.

 

Tapwater:  [Merth] is on essentially the same water system as us, supplied from deep artesian springs.  Chloramine, removed using Prime or equivalent, typically done directly in the tank since I use a Python for water changes.  TDS is around 150.  GH=0, was not boosting it very much or consistently in the past, but lately got in the habit of boosting it to at least 2 using CaSO4.  KH=8, I've been told by a local this is nearly all sodium bicarbonate, added by the water company.  For [Oblongshrimp], the annual water quality report lists copper to be less than 0.1ppm in 90% of local households, it's undetectable at our tap using an API copper test (though it's not a very sensitive test).  Other heavy metals aren't an issue here.

 

Tank:  Mostly inert substrates, heavily planted, dosed with dry ferts EI-style and with 50% weekly water changes.  Excel (or equivalent) at standard dose is used in all non-CO2 tanks, and sometimes in CO2 tanks as well, due to inclusion in selfmade liquid micro solutions.  Though this doesn't apply to the time we kept any shrimp, recently I've been making a lot of changes.  CO2 is limited to no more than 15ppm regardless of light level, and EI dosage has been heavily trimmed.  Also made the switch from CSM+B to Miller Microplex, which has higher copper.  I've seen conflicting info whether that is a real or theoretical risk to shrimp.  But I am using 75% less Microplex than a straight substitution for CSM+B based on iron content alone, then adding separate iron and boron to build it back up.

 

Algae treatments:  A bunch of you know me and have seen my posts on the "One-Two Punch", how to use Algaefix with reduced risk, etc.  So I figured I'd explicitly state - I don't use these in tanks with shrimp.

 

 

My Plans & Questions:

 

Looks like Stef is going to be receiving some orange sakuras soon.  Lovely shrimp.  I want to keep them alive.  Especially since if I kill them, Stef will kill me.

 

And I realize that my typical way of doing things won't work for these shrimp.  What I'm not sure is how drastically it needs to be changed.  Some of the posts I've seen regarding shrimpkeeping appear to go to such extremes it boggles my mind, and I can't judge from experience whether that is really necessary.

 

At the start, we will be setting aside at least a 2.5G, or maybe a 5G, intended for the shrimp's benefit alone.  Are there any tankmates that will benefit the shrimp or their environment?

 

We'd like it to be moderately to heavily planted with low light plants.  Excel, CO2, iodine, nitrate and phosphate will not be used.  I'd like to at least continue providing micros in some form, so that the plants can do their job of improving water quality without too much limitation.  What is an acceptable source/quantity of micros?

 

The tapwater, with no GH, KH=8, and TDS=150, is obviously not optimal.  I know for certain I must boost GH into acceptable range, but with the starting KH that will result in a TDS just over what's generally considered optimal.  Will TDS be a problem in this case?  Can I use a typical GH Booster ratio, or should the calcium/magnesium/potassium ratio be altered?

 

If we need to reduce TDS (or copper), we lack the space for a traditional RO system.  I did some looking around and found some options, like the Zerowater filter (http://www.zerowater.com/), or the WaterMaker Mini (http://www.nimbuswaterstore.com/watermakermini/index.html).  Either of these will supply enough for small weekly water changes in our starting tank, though I'm not ruling out something a little bigger.  Active substrates that stabilize water parameters are also an option, though having used only inert substrates, I'm unfamiliar with the options here.  I'd also consider a "dirt" substrate if it will help the plants, but I'm not sure it would do anything for the TDS or shrimp.  Any advice welcome here!

 

Finally, food.  We have a large variety of dry foods.  Almost a dozen from the Angelsplus product line alone.  Often supplemented with live microworms, shelled peas, decap BSE, spirulena powder, etc.  Would it be worthwhile to purchase a shrimp-specific dry food, or is what we have "good enough"?

 

Whew.  Alright, that's all I can think of.  For now anyway!

[Sake]

 

At the start, we will be setting aside at least a 2.5G, or maybe a 5G, intended for the shrimp's benefit alone.  Are there any tankmates that will benefit the shrimp or their environment?

Snails are suppose to be good to have in a shrimp tank, some people say that the baby shrimp will munch off the snail trail..snail trail ..Not saying nothing <.<

 

 

The tapwater, with no GH, KH=8, and TDS=150, is obviously not optimal.  I know for certain I must boost GH into acceptable range, but with the starting KH that will result in a TDS just over what's generally considered optimal.  Will TDS be a problem in this case?  Can I use a typical GH Booster ratio, or should the calcium/magnesium/potassium ratio be altered?

You could use something like salty shrimp gh booster that Oblongshrimp carries to boost it the GH for cherry shrimp should be between 4-10ish, the TDS can go as high as 400ish. Not sure how much salty shrimp raises TDS per degree, I have it ordered so once I get it I can tell you more. If you have issues, you could always mix in some distilled water, for a 2.5 or 5 gallon tank it's not bad to get water from a store. 1 gallon will last you at least 2 weeks maybe a month depending on top offs.

 

Would it be worthwhile to purchase a shrimp-specific dry food, or is what we have "good enough"?

You don't want too much protein in their diets. Some algae wafers have a lot of protein in them. I'd get shrimp specific food but that depends on what your current food has in it. I'm sure you know you can feed them veggies, stinging nettle, all kinds of different things.

 

If we need to reduce TDS (or copper), we lack the space for a traditional RO system.

Yeah oh well that's tough, this is going to be the first in many, many, many shrimp tanks! Best be making some room for an RO system these lil fellows are addictive! lmao

 

I left off answering the part about ferts because I just dunno honestly. Hopefully someone else will chime in and tell you.

[Sake]

BTW who let these two in here?!?! Welcome to the forums guys!

[Art by Stef*]

Thank you, Sake!

I slipped on in the backdoor and drug Darkcobra with me.

 

Actually, we are both pretty excited about our new shrimp adventure, and happy to find a place so knowledgeable and welcoming.

Thank You, Soothing Shrimp!

-Stef*

[Soothing Shrimp]

You are very welcome.

 

While I was learning shrimp years ago, I killed I think 6 tanks of shrimp before I finally started to understand shrimping.  It's part of the learning curve unfortunately. heh

 

The only shrimp safe fish is said to be otos.  Snails do well with shrimp, too. (Except assassin snails.)

 

When you want an entry level RO system, check out here.  I have a 100gpd unit I got for under $100.  My water pressure sucks, so it takes awhile to fill a 10 gallon container, but it works for me.  In the meantime, before going through all that money, why not pay $1 for a jug of RO at Walmart or the local grocer?  You'll only have to change 10% of the water once a week.  So not a lot of water will be used as you can see.

 

I know you are used to DIY gh boosters, but the advantage to SS or other shrimp remineralizers is that it uses minerals the shrimp are able to use for strengthening their shells, and have good health.

 

Do you have a digital TDS pen?  You can get one pretty cheap from Ebay.

 

As far as shrimp food, the cheapest way to go (and one of the healthiest) is to feed blanched organic baby spinach or mulberry leaves.  You also can do bee pollen (that tends to raise TDS fast in small tanks though.)  There's several pellets and foods marketing for shrimp though that have their own advantages.  The most obvious is storage.

 

As for micros. usually we do moss, hornwort, floaters, etc that use the shrimp waste ammonia and nits. and that's it.  Simple simple simple.

[Darkcobra]

Thanks for the responses.  I read them, then read them again, then kept reading more elsewhere... and reading...  and...  and now I feel a bit like this:

 

 

But I think we have a handle on it now.

 

Here's the plan.

 

We'll be starting with and using 100% store-bought RO water for now, as I agree it will be sufficient for the starter tank.  It also eliminates the need for Prime and such.  Will keep looking at in-home water production options for later, in case the shrimp bug bites and we expand.

 

As for remineralization, the SaltyShrimp GH booster, while highly recommended, is a hard sell for me.  I really dislike relying on products that don't give you any clue what's in them, because you can never really understand why they're working.  Or sometimes, not working.  Mixing a more sophisticated DIY GH/KH booster, that provides better bio-availability than typical, is easy enough.  And more my style.  I can make a separate post on my plan for that if anyone is interested.

 

Substrate will be well rinsed Flourite Black.

 

We already have large quantities of indian almond leaves, alder cones, and banana leaves.  These will be used for stabilization of parameters like pH.  They're easily replaceable, which we both prefer over having to replace a consumable substrate (though for differing reasons).  They'll also provide a nice organic source of trace minerals, humates, tannins, and other goodies.  Which should make up for any deficiencies in substrate/remineralization/food for shrimp, plants, and beneficial bacteria.

 

Food will be rotated.  We'll pick out a good shrimp food to include in the rotation, and already have a few dry foods on hand that are largely vegetable/algae based with reduced protein.  Plus blanched baby spinach leaves.  Suddenly I'm craving a nice salad.

 

Top it off with some water lettuce (the tank, not the salad).  Plus java fern, hortworn, sunset hygrophilia, and anything else similar we can fit.  And a LED light, which was woefully inadequate for the tank it came with, but should be perfect for this one.

 

Haven't made a final choice on filtration yet, but we have plenty of small power filters, air-driven sponge filters, and cut-to-size bulk foam media on hand to choose from.  And I'm sure Stef won't mind me being a panty thief, if some hose is needed to cover a sponge.

 

How's that sound?

[Art by Stef*]

Yeah, Darkcobra, I'm feeling a bit like this:

 

 

 

Moderator, feel free to move this thread to General Discussion if needed

 

-Stef*

[Sake]

Can't we just delete it and pretend ya'll didn't come here?!?! Sorry poor joke but had to XD

[Darkcobra]

Delete us all you want, we are the Utricularia gibba of the forums, you'll never get rid of us now.

 

OH - forgot to mention in response to earlier posts.  We do have a TDS meter.  Drip acclimation is also pretty much standard here, regardless of kind of fauna.

[Sake]

Lmao sooo not funny I just found a small stem of that in my tank the other day >.< You snuck it in my tank didn't ya <.<

[Soothing Shrimp]

LOL  Well I'm glad you are not leaving anytime soon.  You both are good people.

[MABJ]

Welcome guys.

 

I too have killed many a shrimp. Sad, as they're my favorite aquatic critters. I've even vowed this is my last shot at making a shrimp tank until I'm done moving around (college). Regardless, I have the knowledge and know how, and that's half the battle. With all this good advice here, you have/will have it soon too.

 

Next is putting it into practice and sticking true to your word. 

 

On a side note.. I have a bucket of water which has some of my rocks and driftwood from my last tank, and a year after tearing it down, I found a shrimp swimming in that brown water. There were no shrimp, period, so that was a baby which grew up in there. I figure moving the year old shrimp, it'd just kill him to move him into a completely different tank, so I suppose that bucket is where his life cycle will culminate..

[octanejunkie]

So much to say on this topic, but sounds like you're on the right track.

Ive got 6 shrimp tanks running, 4 starting up and 4 more tanks w plants and shrimp. I distinguish between shrimp tanks and planted tanks w shrimp in my house.

Shrimp tanks are simple and easy: low light plants and mosses (java ferns, floaters) good filtration, 100% RO and a soil based on the species' needs. I keep 9 different shrimp species.

Crystals and bees on ADA aquasoil, usually, but I have a few tanks w Shrimp Sand and one w EC.

Good bio filtration is important. I use sponge filters in addition to HOB filters in small tanks and am converting some to HMF as I move them to my shrimp rack; and my larger tanks will be on a sump system.

I only dose KNO3 and Fe once a week, 1-2 drops per gallon, and Flourish (micros) once a month, again 1-2 drops per gallon. No CO2 in shrimp tanks.

Feed using a feed dish, 2-3 times a week only, and remove what they don't eat in a few hours. I favor blanched leafy greens, carrot, zucchini and broccoli stems. I use dowme Jake's complete veggie, hikari shrimp cuisine and the occasional small algae wafer broken into small pieces.

I also have shrimp in buckets, literally, as well as tanks. Very easy to keep shrimp. Less is more.

Sent while on the go...

[Art by Stef*]

I blame this whole venture on Soothing.

He started it all with his pumpkin neos I got off him for Christmas.

2 months later, and I now have crs, too.

So far, so good. After a small crisis, everything is doing fine, the females are berried again, and I got plenty of baby pumpkin seeds (unless I am seeing the same 7).

I hope to expand on the crs, which are doing fine so far with the pumpkins, but already cycling 2 more

small tanks for whatever mob rules.

-Stef*

[Doc4PC2]

Hi, I am new to this forum, and the Shrimp world, but I am going into anyway!  I am setup and

ready to get my first shipment of CRS next week and go from there. My tank is cycled and

setup for a CRS only tank and I think I have the water quality right and their new home

good to go. Bring on the Shrimp!