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The Tank of Death


BigJake
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I'm about at my whit's end with a tank that I can't get anything to live in.  Setup is as follows:

 

20180820_155240_HDR.jpg.4399210b8f9e92884471c310a12a3910.jpg

 

20 Gallons

2 ATI #2 sponge filters

Eco Complete black substrate

Mopani wood

Cholla wood

Peacock moss

Riccia Fluitans

Anubias

Dragon stone

 

TDS 257

GH 9-10

KH 4-5

Temp 69-72F

Ammonia 0

Nitrite 0

Nitrate 5-10

 

RO water remineralized with Salty Shrimp GH/KH

 

The story:

I originally started this tank late last year.  I can blame my failed start on insufficient knowledge and some questionable shrimp.  Original setup was the same with an AquaClear 30, spider wood instead of Mopani and Cholla.

 

I cycled the tank in about 3 weeks and started with 20 orange rili shrimp.  The were beautiful and active.  However, I didn't know about necrosis at the time or I would have taken it up with the seller.  They clear rili part of the shrimp was very white.  They were all dead within a couple of days.

 

Not knowing what was left in the tank (and a bit of frustration) I reset it with bleach.  Got rid of anything that could carry anything in the tank.  The only thing remaining from the original tank was the Eco Complete, a piece of dragon stone and the tank.  I let the tank cycle for about 3 months after all the bleach was cleared.  Lots of bio-film and everything seemed to be doing well.  Ordered 20 yellow neos.  Looked great for a couple weeks.  Had a berried female.  Then everything started slowing down.  The shrimp started acting lethargic.  Started looking milky.  Started dying.  All gone a couple weeks later.  I drained the tank again, refilled.  Let it go through a mini-cycle.  Watched all parameters and ordered more shrimp a month later.  10 more yellow neos.  Again, looked great for a couple weeks.  Berried females.  Now here we are a couple weeks later and they are dying.

 

Maintenance:

I usually let my parameters guide my water changes (Nitrate or TDS).  Usually about 3 weeks between. 15% change.  Lights are on from 9am to 4pm.  Weekly dripped RO water for top-offs.

 

Feeding:

The shrimp in this tank have never shown interest in food.  Seem to prefer bio-film before they get sick.  I do provide a mulberry leaf.

 

Not sure what else I missed.  I'm looking for any kind of guidance.  And to brighten things up... my PFRs munching on a squash bloom (who don't live in the tank of death)20180820_173808.jpg.959fee4845166e5dbebdc2ad64bf2748.jpg:

 

 

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drop the substrate and rocks. nuke the take with 5-10% bleach and start over.

weekly 10% w/c

i honestly dont think your feeding them enough. also shrimps imo doesnt seem to like mulberry leaf(neos and bees).feed organic blanch spinach, and a protein 3-4 times a week rotating.

what shrimps are you trying to keep? looks like neo parameters

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I'm not a fan of bleach, but I'd completely reset the tank and try again.  This time remove all substrate, rocks, wood and pitch it in the trash.  Let the tank cycle fully and season for a bit.  The brown diatom algae on your glass leads me to believe that this tank hasn't seasoned and leveled-out completely.  Every tank needs to find its own balance, they are a self-contained ecosystem and sometimes it takes longer on one tank than another.  

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8 hours ago, wyzazz said:

I'm not a fan of bleach, but I'd completely reset the tank and try again.  This time remove all substrate, rocks, wood and pitch it in the trash.  Let the tank cycle fully and season for a bit.  The brown diatom algae on your glass leads me to believe that this tank hasn't seasoned and leveled-out completely.

 

My thoughts as well.  You said it cycled for 3 months...did you feed the tank/bacteria during this time with nothing in it?  If not they bacteria may not have lived during that time.

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If you have fed both tanks mulberry or both times could your leaf source possibly have pesticides on them.  It may take more than one leaf before the levles build up.  The RO water.  Is it your own filter or purchased ro.  Have you tested it before adding anything?  Could something be slipping through?  That seems like a long time to have lights on.  Iv gone to 5 hours on and am dropping it to 4 soon to try b stop long strings of alage.  Another thing you could try is starting the tank with prodbio bacteria.  Their stary up kit has a vial each of biodigest and ammonia stop.  Everyone aroud my neck of the woods swears by that method to start a tank.  Do that 12 hours before you add shrimp and your good to go.  If you want to wait a month id hold off on the amoniastop and add that a day befor shrimp along with another vial of biodigest.  

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My thoughts as well.  You said it cycled for 3 months...did you feed the tank/bacteria during this time with nothing in it?  If not they bacteria may not have lived during that time.
I had 4 nerites in the tank for the three months.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

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If you have fed both tanks mulberry or both times could your leaf source possibly have pesticides on them.  It may take more than one leaf before the levles build up.  The RO water.  Is it your own filter or purchased ro.  Have you tested it before adding anything?  Could something be slipping through?  That seems like a long time to have lights on.  Iv gone to 5 hours on and am dropping it to 4 soon to try b stop long strings of alage.  Another thing you could try is starting the tank with prodbio bacteria.  Their stary up kit has a vial each of biodigest and ammonia stop.  Everyone aroud my neck of the woods swears by that method to start a tank.  Do that 12 hours before you add shrimp and your good to go.  If you want to wait a month id hold off on the amoniastop and add that a day befor shrimp along with another vial of biodigest.  
After the second failure I threw everything out that I was using for the tank. Leaves and foods. I didn't toss the remineralizer or Bacter AE. I did switch to Magic Powder though with the third batch just in case.

The water I'm using is my own RO. Tests 4-6 ppm out of the tank.

Also, just to clarify. I am putting food in the tank. They just never touch it. I've tried everything from Shrimp King to SL Aqua to Shrimp Nature to ... They'll eat a mulberry leaf. Just not much. They also show no interest in IAL, oak leaves or guava leaves.

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55 minutes ago, BigJake said:

After the second failure I threw everything out that I was using for the tank. Leaves and foods. I didn't toss the remineralizer or Bacter AE. I did switch to Magic Powder though with the third batch just in case.

The water I'm using is my own RO. Tests 4-6 ppm out of the tank.

Also, just to clarify. I am putting food in the tank. They just never touch it. I've tried everything from Shrimp King to SL Aqua to Shrimp Nature to ... They'll eat a mulberry leaf. Just not much. They also show no interest in IAL, oak leaves or guava leaves.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
 

 

yeah its hard finding a food your shrimp like sometimes.. our top grade prl only seem to like 1 food also.   its not a bad thing necessarily,  maybe they are just getting all they need from the biofauna that graze on all day and the Magic Powder.    Any "brown" (IAL/oak/guava/etc) leaves are more about tank health vs direct consumption by the shrimp.  The biofauna break these "brown" leaves down and the shrimp graze on them, not the leaf.

 

 

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And so it continues...

20180823_104911.jpg.7c35f4fb848680e0c4aec7182b71b7e4.jpg

 

I guess it's time to start over.  I'll have to do an insta-cycle on one of my spare 10-gallons tonight for the remaining shrimp.  My wife loves it when I set up tanks on the kitchen counter.

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My shrimp seem to like shrimp nature immunity and mineral uptake by dwarf shrimp. Every tank rushes the mineral uptake. Just found out about it when i was at a breeders place. Best of all its cheap compared to most shrimp foods. Best of luck on the next restart.

Oh with your ro filter how old are the filters? The carbon may be exhausted even though the tds is ok. Maybe add a half dose of Prime just to be safe this time around.

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Do you have a dog-cat?

Or did you use any chemical in your home?

Did u touch any chemicals?

I loose lot of shrimps, before 2 years from dog fleat cure.

 

In the next setup try to use an inert substrate and just litle moss...

No woods, no metal mess

Just for be sure that nothing can affect the tank...

 

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On 8/30/2018 at 8:59 PM, Crackhead Johny said:

what is "dragon stone"? it isn't something like lava rock that may leach toxins and metals into the tank is it?

 

dragon stone is also known as Ohko stone.

 

it is clay based and has lots of nooks & cranny's.  It could leach "stuff" if said "stuff got into the nooks & cranny's and was not cleaned out.

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Well, I tried saving the tank with some beneficial bacteria additives but no success.  Lost the last three today.

 

I'm going to tear the tank down this weekend and reset it.  Is there any way to save my moss and anubias or should I just throw it out?  Maybe a dip in potassium permanganate to kill any bacteria that may be on it?

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On 9/5/2018 at 7:01 PM, BigJake said:

Well, I tried saving the tank with some beneficial bacteria additives but no success.  Lost the last three today.

 

I'm going to tear the tank down this weekend and reset it.  Is there any way to save my moss and anubias or should I just throw it out?  Maybe a dip in potassium permanganate to kill any bacteria that may be on it?

You can definitely save the anubias as it should be pretty easy to ensure that it is well cleaned off, moss will be a bit trickier since it does such a good job of holding onto mulm and bacteria. If you must save some of the moss I would just cut a few small pieces off of the tips and start fresh.

 

As for dipping, I would suggest h2o2 (hydrogen peroxide) if all your looking to do is kill bacteria and algae. It kills all bacteria and algae very well in my experience, and when it breaks down it just turns into h2o and a free o molecule, so you dont have to worry about your plants absorbing any possible non shrimp safe chemicals since its just water and oxygen.

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I always had bad luck with ATI filters. I finally figured out the bases rust and leach into the water. It sounds like your issues are with biological contamination, but it’s worth checking out your filters.

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36 minutes ago, Mr. F said:

I always had bad luck with ATI filters. I finally figured out the bases rust and leach into the water. It sounds like your issues are with biological contamination, but it’s worth checking out your filters.

 

Same do the ebay stuff.. .

They get rust and they are new... not over a year.

I remove the metal and put some gravel in there , it does the job.

 

GetAttachmentThumbnail.jpg.1cc9d5298278822efe33e8b60a9f369d.jpg

 

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