stonedaquarium Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Soothing i plan to do a tank tear down, and reset everything take out the diy pvc breeding tubes drain out the tank water do a gravel vacumm and let it recycle again. This time hopefully it would do well to chocolates. As i plan to get a new tank for my incoming fire reds lol pictokid1983 and Soothing Shrimp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictokid1983 Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 I've done that with very good results when I was working with high quality rilis. BTW, I think some of us have owned a "tank of death" before. That one tank where no matter what you try, almost nothing seems to thrive! yea i guess im having that "T.O.D" now haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted November 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 what happened to your tank PIcto? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamashack Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 I think I've got one of those too! My white pearl mama died 2 weeks into being berried for no apparent reason - have tried to retrieve the eggs tho I think she may have been dead a day or so as she went missing and only turned up after a water change moved things a bit. Not sure how successful hatching will be at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictokid1983 Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 what happened to your tank PIcto? same as you having fire deaths daily... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted November 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 picto sorry to hear about that... fire reds are really weird sometimes... still even despite of that ... they are still one of my favorite neo species... how big is your tank... i kinda figured that my tank was i guess over stocked... having about maybe 30 plus adults and 30 plus shrimpets in a 5 gal was i guess to much for them... things that kinda helped when i moved the remaining colony to blend with my red rilis.... and they seem to recover.... how big is your tank... another thing was i figured i was killing them with too much love as you can say... constantly testing and fiddling with the water parameters... i just realized that if i just let things be stable they would do much better... for my 5 gal tank of death.... i just did a major water change and kept 5 shrimplets in there to see how they fare and to test the conditions of the water... was i plan to put some 20 pcs of sub adult chocos in my old TOD... i dunno if its just a jinx but... fire reds just seem to be a very picky variant to keep... my blue pearls and rilis are just so low maintenance... and doing well... i do get an occassional death but its just like a random 1 old shrimp... lol... wishing you the best in figuring out how to overcome your TOD... keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictokid1983 Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 picto sorry to hear about that... fire reds are really weird sometimes... still even despite of that ... they are still one of my favorite neo species... how big is your tank... i kinda figured that my tank was i guess over stocked... having about maybe 30 plus adults and 30 plus shrimpets in a 5 gal was i guess to much for them... things that kinda helped when i moved the remaining colony to blend with my red rilis.... and they seem to recover.... how big is your tank... another thing was i figured i was killing them with too much love as you can say... constantly testing and fiddling with the water parameters... i just realized that if i just let things be stable they would do much better... for my 5 gal tank of death.... i just did a major water change and kept 5 shrimplets in there to see how they fare and to test the conditions of the water... was i plan to put some 20 pcs of sub adult chocos in my old TOD... i dunno if its just a jinx but... fire reds just seem to be a very picky variant to keep... my blue pearls and rilis are just so low maintenance... and doing well... i do get an occassional death but its just like a random 1 old shrimp... lol... wishing you the best in figuring out how to overcome your TOD... keep us posted. well my tank is 75 litres. now im feeding only on alternate days and stop trying to do additional water changes etc upon finding deaths. i think it will trigger them to forcefully moult and become more prone to dying instead. i have two other stable tanks which i troubleshoot by shifting them but they still die off. i suspect it may not be just the water parameters but some sort of infection or i-dont-really-know-what-else factor haha. They are pretty much wiped out at this moment, only the shrimplets are doing well in that same tank (which is quite a curious thing to me, adults all dying off but shrimplets are not affected at all which draws me to the idea whether they have some sort of infection). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted November 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 How old are your shrimp do u have a pic of your shrimp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyeGuy411 Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 I had a TOD and guess what I have in it Fire Reds. Hmm. I could not figure out what was killing my shrimp 1 a day for about a month and a half. I tested water levels constantly nothing out of the ordinary PH 7.6 Amonia-0 Nitrites-0 Nitrates <20 temp 76 Gh 9 KH 8. I didnt change or add anything since the tank was set up in early July the TOD syndrome started in September. Once I finally gave up and had lost all but three baby shrimp. Some time passed about a month and I decided to add new Fire Reds one at a time from the LFS. They lived huh weird. It is no longer the tank of death. I guess the only thing could have been was too much love. Every time one would die I would test everything and usually do a water change. I think it was just a viscious cycle. The good part is I have a 1.75g bowl on my desk at work, no heater and up until a couple days ago no filter just an air stone. All of my females 5 of 8 berried and now are starting to hatch. I have soo many baby Fire Reds once they get a little larger I will use them to restock the TOD. stonedaquarium 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Ever considered that maybe that strain has a weaker immune system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyeGuy411 Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 In my case my TOD (4g) fire reds were from the same breeder as the 1.75g bowl that is breeding like crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted November 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 its just funny that it seems like fire reds are surprisingly picky... just got a new batch in and i lost 2 due to the shipping... just considered not to freak out and leave them be in the next couple of days... they arrived last night so i guess they still must be recovering from the shipping, so no food yet for the next few days... or maybe till tomorrow... lessons learned i guess from the TOD... just learn to accept things and not over react... sometimes overreacting due to the mystery deaths might result in the deaths due to love... lol... i restocked my fire reds in my old 20 gal planted ripped out most of the trouble some plants (ones that were covered in algae) and left some MC and DHG in there along with some moss and java ferns... my old TOD (5 gal) is stocked with 20 pcs of Chocos they all seemed fine... just keeping my fingers crossed... picto, hows the tank doin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictokid1983 Posted November 29, 2014 Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 its just funny that it seems like fire reds are surprisingly picky... just got a new batch in and i lost 2 due to the shipping... just considered not to freak out and leave them be in the next couple of days... they arrived last night so i guess they still must be recovering from the shipping, so no food yet for the next few days... or maybe till tomorrow... lessons learned i guess from the TOD... just learn to accept things and not over react... sometimes overreacting due to the mystery deaths might result in the deaths due to love... lol... i restocked my fire reds in my old 20 gal planted ripped out most of the trouble some plants (ones that were covered in algae) and left some MC and DHG in there along with some moss and java ferns... my old TOD (5 gal) is stocked with 20 pcs of Chocos they all seemed fine... just keeping my fingers crossed... picto, hows the tank doin? things are not good haha i lost over 110 pieces i would say its a 98% wipeout by now. Luckily i still have another breeding tank of lower grade fire, they do breed, grow and die and population seems to be slowly increasing which is a good sign since they are pretty much self-sustainable by now. Guess i will harvest the "TOD" shrimplets and work from there see if i can raise them successfully and re-establish a colony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 hope your low grade fires grow and replenish you lost colony... as for me... well i decided to partition my 10 gal rili tank to house my new fire reds... knocking on wood they seem to be ok... and i found one berried rili... the sad news is that my TOD switched from my Fire red tank to my blue pearls... i guess this happened when i got some new 30 pcs of blue pearls that was just imported in from taiwan and low and behold the deaths started.... hayss..... oh well... i guess i might consider moving things to gettting an RODI filter... its just painful seeing dead shrimp.... i might finally have to make that call to get me some RO.... hehehehe... Quick question to the shrimp experts... what would be the best way to remove nitrates aside from reduced feedings and water changes... ? pictokid1983 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasshalffull Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Floating plants help too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 stoned, are you familiar with adding bacteria to shrimp from another colony? Each shrimp colony ha it's own bacteria. Most times shrimp are able to adjust to new bacteria when new shrimp are introduced, however there are times when the bacteria added from new shrimp is just too much for them to handle and die offs occur. This is a risk whenever we add new shrimp to an existing colony. stonedaquarium, mayphly and pictokid1983 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictokid1983 Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 stoned, are you familiar with adding bacteria to shrimp from another colony? Each shrimp colony ha it's own bacteria. Most times shrimp are able to adjust to new bacteria when new shrimp are introduced, however there are times when the bacteria added from new shrimp is just too much for them to handle and die offs occur. This is a risk whenever we add new shrimp to an existing colony. learnt something new today! i had never thought of that, thanks soothing for the new insight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamashack Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 I think I've discovered what has been affecting my TOD - internal bacterial infection. Have had to order some Paraguard and beta-g so have my fingers crossed it gets here in time as I'm down to 4 in that tank - 2 affected adults and 2 seemingly unaffected juvies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted December 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 stoned, are you familiar with adding bacteria to shrimp from another colony? Each shrimp colony ha it's own bacteria. Most times shrimp are able to adjust to new bacteria when new shrimp are introduced, however there are times when the bacteria added from new shrimp is just too much for them to handle and die offs occur. This is a risk whenever we add new shrimp to an existing colony. soothing, good point you made there... thanks for that... so what do you suggest we do to make sure we are able to get our shrimp to adjust to the new bacteria when introducing new shrimp.... i know its a risk we all take but what practice can we do to minimize the risk...? i dunno if there is any sense to this thing im just gonna share, but i first had my TOD with my fire red colony which was closed to being wiped out gradually, so i decided to bite the bullet and just buy a new batch to restock my colony.... the 1st TOD was my 20 gal planted which initially housed my Fire reds... then when the deaths were too much i moved them to a smaller 5 gal where they were ok for a bit then after a month of being fine die offs occured... i moved them again from the 5 gal to preserve what ever colony i had... still about 50 of them... and i decided to gamble and placed them in my red rili tank... which i managed to partition using a glass divider... and prayed that they would survive then... till this day they are doing well with exception to 1 mortality during the tank transfer ( couldnt handle the bacteria adjustment as what soothing mentioned).... then the old 5 gal tank my old TOD then i gambled and placed my choco colony in and they had been fine..... so i guess its true what soothing mentioned about some shrimps being able to adjust better than others... i had zero die offs in my 5 gal TOD.... knock on wood... now my dilemma is my blue pearl tank which was supposed to be one of the better tanks... i added a batch of blue pearls from taiwan and boom... daily die offs... must have lost about 20 pcs and 3 berried ones too... so i decided to move those blue pearls to my 5 gal tank along with my chocos... and moved 3 low grade chocos to my blue pearl tank to observe.... if the 3 chocos would be ok in the old blue pearl tank... after a few days i might move all my chocos and transfer all my blue pearls to my choco tank... its just a mystery as to why neos can be so finicky considering most say they are so low maintenance.... i might be over killing my tanks... but here is a list of stuff i use for my tanks... Mosura rich water (1 spoon ful after each water change) Mosura bio plus ( 1/2 spoon after each water change) prime (one capful after each water change) food hikari algae wafer azoo max growth and max breed borneo wild bebi for my shrimplets my TDS is really high around 300 which i might consider buying an RODI system to lower it down... but then some experts mention that TDS is just a number and that Gh is more important.... hopefullly im just hoping for the best to hope that my blue pearl colony recovers and that my chocos would adapt to the old TOD and turn it into a TOF (tank of life) cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 "I think I've discovered what has been affecting my TOD - internal bacterial infection. Have had to order some Paraguard and beta-g so have my fingers crossed it gets here in time as I'm down to 4 in that tank - 2 affected adults and 2 seemingly unaffected juvies." Wouldn't it be great if the juvies had teh best immune systems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted December 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 stoned, are you familiar with adding bacteria to shrimp from another colony? Each shrimp colony ha it's own bacteria. Most times shrimp are able to adjust to new bacteria when new shrimp are introduced, however there are times when the bacteria added from new shrimp is just too much for them to handle and die offs occur. This is a risk whenever we add new shrimp to an existing colony. soothing, good point you made there... thanks for that... so what do you suggest we do to make sure we are able to get our shrimp to adjust to the new bacteria when introducing new shrimp.... i know its a risk we all take but what practice can we do to minimize the risk...? i dunno if there is any sense to this thing im just gonna share, but i first had my TOD with my fire red colony which was closed to being wiped out gradually, so i decided to bite the bullet and just buy a new batch to restock my colony.... the 1st TOD was my 20 gal planted which initially housed my Fire reds... then when the deaths were too much i moved them to a smaller 5 gal where they were ok for a bit then after a month of being fine die offs occured... i moved them again from the 5 gal to preserve what ever colony i had... still about 50 of them... and i decided to gamble and placed them in my red rili tank... which i managed to partition using a glass divider... and prayed that they would survive then... till this day they are doing well with exception to 1 mortality during the tank transfer ( couldnt handle the bacteria adjustment as what soothing mentioned).... then the old 5 gal tank my old TOD then i gambled and placed my choco colony in and they had been fine..... so i guess its true what soothing mentioned about some shrimps being able to adjust better than others... i had zero die offs in my 5 gal TOD.... knock on wood... now my dilemma is my blue pearl tank which was supposed to be one of the better tanks... i added a batch of blue pearls from taiwan and boom... daily die offs... must have lost about 20 pcs and 3 berried ones too... so i decided to move those blue pearls to my 5 gal tank along with my chocos... and moved 3 low grade chocos to my blue pearl tank to observe.... if the 3 chocos would be ok in the old blue pearl tank... after a few days i might move all my chocos and transfer all my blue pearls to my choco tank... its just a mystery as to why neos can be so finicky considering most say they are so low maintenance.... i might be over killing my tanks... but here is a list of stuff i use for my tanks... Mosura rich water (1 spoon ful after each water change) Mosura bio plus ( 1/2 spoon after each water change) prime (one capful after each water change) food hikari algae wafer azoo max growth and max breed borneo wild bebi for my shrimplets my TDS is really high around 300 which i might consider buying an RODI system to lower it down... but then some experts mention that TDS is just a number and that Gh is more important.... hopefullly im just hoping for the best to hope that my blue pearl colony recovers and that my chocos would adapt to the old TOD and turn it into a TOF (tank of life) cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 good point you made there... thanks for that... so what do you suggest we do to make sure we are able to get our shrimp to adjust to the new bacteria when introducing new shrimp.... i know its a risk we all take but what practice can we do to minimize the risk...? I guess in theory if one were to dose anti-bacterial medications, or raise the tannin level when introducing a new shrimp colony- it may aid in reducing the deaths from introductions. Honestly though, it has happened to me, but not so often that I worry about it anymore. If I start to have massive die offs after introduction, and can't pinpoint the source, I do a "water reset" and usually that works. its just a mystery as to why neos can be so finicky considering most say they are so low maintenance.... This is a rumor that has been around the internet for years. Are shrimp easy to keep? Depends on your area, water, etc. There are certainly more params to watch for than in fish. The reason why people often say start with neos are they are more likely to takes Ooopsies better since they are less sensitive than other shrimp, and since most are not as expensive- one won't go broke while learning how to keep them. I'm actually more inclined to say Malawa are even more hardy than cherries depending on your source. Some people even enjoy keeping ghost shrimp. Also, getting shrimp from another country is often a crapshoot. The stress they have in traveling, any ammonia poisoning while in the bag, and adjustment to new params is sometimes just too much for them. Having said that, I've enjoyed being on the forefront of working with new color morphs freshly imported. It is a gamble though. For example, when BD were first imported here, I lost 2/3 of my stock within the first week. The rest of the 1/3 I was working with to make them hardier. After I reached close to my desired goal I sold them off so others could continue working with them for ease of keeping. I just recently bought a colony from someone, and I've had no problems with these now. We all have to work together for success in shrimping. my TDS is really high around 300 which i might consider buying an RODI system to lower it down... but then some experts mention that TDS is just a number and that Gh is more important.... TDS is not really that important with neos provided they have acclimated to a TDS, what the TDS contains, and you are not worried about breeding. Heck, I've been sent neos in TDS from 1000+ before! We don't really have common tests to find out what the TDS is in any given water. So, we kind of generalize it. Now, if you have a goal such as selectively breeding, you may find (like me) you are always looking for that sweet spot. For me and my water it turns out to be around 200-300. Others have great success in closer to 100 or so. I will add this- I don't worry too much about upping TDS in my tanks, but I try to never reduce it on neos less than 100 TDS in a day. Less than 50 TDS for more sensitive shrimp. It may be overly cautious this way, however when reducing TDS you are sucking minerals out of the shrimp body. It takes time for them to recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamashack Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 "I think I've discovered what has been affecting my TOD - internal bacterial infection. Have had to order some Paraguard and beta-g so have my fingers crossed it gets here in time as I'm down to 4 in that tank - 2 affected adults and 2 seemingly unaffected juvies." Wouldn't it be great if the juvies had teh best immune systems? I hope they do, Soothing! If they turn out to be the only survivors I think as one is much larger than the other there may be a male and a female. Would it be safe for them to mate since they are siblings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted December 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 great insights soothing.. thanks... you mentioned paraguard... how do you dose paraguard in a way that it would be safe for shrimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 I hope they do, Soothing! If they turn out to be the only survivors I think as one is much larger than the other there may be a male and a female. Would it be safe for them to mate since they are siblings? Sibling matings are different in the shrimp than in mammals. Inbreedings show no problems even up to the 12th generation. Theory has it evolution has been kind to the shrimp since some are in small pools of water their entire lives and can't travel very far. Mammals have more problems inbreeding because they are made to wander vast ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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