Mamashack Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Thanks Soothing - that's reassuring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted December 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 soothing, how do you use paraguard in treating shrimp infections... so far my only method in treating infections is indian almond leaves in the tank each time i add new shrimp... to add some tannins... also i wonder if there is a way or method of quarantining shrimp before adding them to the tank? i remember when i went koi kichi (koi crazy) that it was just like second nature for us to quarantine for about a week before adding them to the main pond.... having said that when they were in the quarantine pond they were treated with meds to make sure they had no fungus, no anchor worms and lice before adding them to the pond... so i was wondering if doing the same practice with shrimp would also be helpful in minimizing the potential threat of incoming shrimps spreading bacterial infections to shrimp tanks? so far so good for my blue pearls and chocos... did a full tank switch and so far both species are doing well... keeping my fingers crossed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Great news on the bp and chocos! Some people do keep quarantine tanks for shrimp. Unlike fish, however, collectively we kind of have the mindset not to add chemicals to shrimp tanks as a preventative. As you mentioned though, we do use tannins, etc that are natural. Most quarantine is done by eye to make sure that, in layman terms, no spikey worms, parasites or fungus are seen on the bodies before adding to the main tank. stonedaquarium 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted December 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Great news on the bp and chocos! Some people do keep quarantine tanks for shrimp. Unlike fish, however, collectively we kind of have the mindset not to add chemicals to shrimp tanks as a preventative. As you mentioned though, we do use tannins, etc that are natural. Most quarantine is done by eye to make sure that, in layman terms, no spikey worms, parasites or fungus are seen on the bodies before adding to the main tank. thanks for your insights soothing... i might consider getting a small 2.5 gal as a quarantine emergency tank when i get a new batch of shrimps... or just a small plastic tub to hold them in temporarily and let them recover from the stress from the travel and to see if they could adapt to my tank water conditions first before adding them in the main tank... your water reset has indeed helped and thanks for the insights im starting to see some shrimplets in my rili and fire reds right now... soothing, how do you start selectively breeding your shrimp...? do you actually have to cull at each succeeding generation? littlebirdie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 "soothing, how do you start selectively breeding your shrimp...? do you actually have to cull at each succeeding generation?" Oh man. LOL A complicated and trick question without it meaning to be. Lots of methods can be done ranging from one tank to multiples, however the easiest is the one tank method. To start a tank use 2 or more shrimp showing traits close to what you would like to breed. Then with each generation bred, cull the ones that don't exhibit the trait. That's it in a nutshell. In fact, that's the basic idea behind any breeding program. With luck you have true breeding in the f1 (first generation.) *sigh* However rarely is it that simple. Sometimes you have to wait until the 2nd or third generation to see any results, and it you cull every offspring, you have none to work with. Also, sometimes colors take times to fill in, so you have to figure out when enough color has come that you can cull effectively. Also, you want to be sure not to go cull crazy and cull out all your males, because they will probably show poor coloration for a long time to come until you can set the strain and breed those to best looks as well. And all the while you should be concerned about hardiness. Good strong immune systems, shrimp that can adapt well to parameters. If you suspect any bacterial infection, remove them immediately. Better to lose a couple than infect a whole colony. Oh yeah...remember Punnet Squares? You can pretty much throw those out the window with shrimp when developing varieties. You will be more concerned with the bell curve. BUT having said that, rili is a pretty established phenotype that pops up from time to time, so hopefully you can get that set in the first several generations- sooner if you get more in f1! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted December 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 thanks... my rilis now seem to be the hardiest neos i had... have 3 berried right now so i hope to see some more shrimpies in the next three weeks... keeping my fingers crossed.... right now im seriously contemplating getting an RODI water system, i was thinking if i could improve atleast the purity of the water i keep my shrimps at i could have a better chance at improving their survival rate at the same time keeping the water parameters stable... one thing that comes to mind is the use of bottled purified water... from where im at i could get 1 5 gal water container of purified water at about less than 50 cents USD per container... the problem with this purified water is that its highly alkaline which is weird because when it tested the water the TDS was at 5, it was extremely soft... and had no salts in the tank but the PH was only off the charts at Ph8.... so i was wondering if this would be a good substitute for the time being while i save up for my RODI filter .... also what do you suggest to use for addiing minerals to up the GH in the tank? i currently use seachem equilibrium... would that be ok? soothing, i have attached a pic of the RO water system that im being offered... can you have a look and give your experienced opinion if its good enough for shrimp tanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 There are other people here much more educated than I on RO systems. I just bought a cheapie 100 gpd system from purewaterclub.com and have been very happy with it. I know others are more dedicated to more expensive systems, but better yield. It all depends what you are looking for. Do you want a DI filter? How much do filters cost? These are all things to take into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Stoned, I just wanted to check something. Are you seriously adding an entire capful of Prime to 5 gallon tanks? Because that is WAY more than you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 For all my liquid dosing I go by 2 drops = 1ml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 It depends on the size of the drop, usually 10-20 drops per mL. Two is ... that's a really big dropper. You can get an oral dosing syringe for babies from most pharmacies or large supermarkets. They're usually around 10 mL. Also, 5 mL = 1 teaspoon. A fluid ounce is about 30 mL. Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted December 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 i only does a capful of prime if i need an emergency detox, like if there are nitrate spikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 It depends on the size of the drop, usually 10-20 drops per mL. Two is ... that's a really big dropper. You can get an oral dosing syringe for babies from most pharmacies or large supermarkets. They're usually around 10 mL. Also, 5 mL = 1 teaspoon. A fluid ounce is about 30 mL. LOL I guess I've been overly cautious without knowing it! littlebirdie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamashack Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 I thought it was 1 drop per 2L water needing treatment? Very strong and powerful stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I thought it was 1 drop per 2L water needing treatment? Very strong and powerful stuff!Yes, or about 2 drops per gallon, or 1 mL per 10 gallons. You can do a 5x treatment, but I would not go 10x. It's unnecessary and can be harmful. Depending on the chemical or the drug, underdosing or overdosing can be equally dangerous. Some drugs are nearly impossible to overdose; some are very easy to overdose. Others, the toxicity varies by species, and even closely related species can have extremely different reactions.What I'm trying to say is, please exercise caution and be as precise as possible when dealing with small volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted April 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 hi there all... its been a while since i last posted on this thread due to the fact that some of my tanks have recovered and all became well till recently... looks like the MTS took its toll... as i know keep about 5 types of Neos, PFRS, BLue, Yellow, Black Rilis, and Red Rilis... they all were doing well till about a week ago where i had several die offs from my colonies... im pretty choked right now at the deaths of my PFRS and Black rilis... lost about 10 berried females combined.... what bothers me the most if the cause of deaths... they all seem fine but every so often they would eat less which i would then also feed less just to find dead shrimp all over the tanks... most of them berried ones too... my parameters are so: PFR (20gal) NH4/NH3 = 0 NO2 = 0 NO3 = 25 to 30 ppm Ph 6.5 to 6.8 GH = 6 to 9 TDS = 360 Temp about 26 to 28 C Red Rili (20gal) NH4/NH3 = 0 NO2 = 0 NO3 = 25 to 30 ppm Ph 6.5 to 6.8 GH = 6 to 9 TDS = 360 Temp about 26 to 28 C Blue Pearls (20 Gal) NH4/NH3 = 0 NO2 = 0 NO3 = 25 to 30 ppm Ph 6.5 to 6.8 GH = 6 to 9 TDS = 360 Temp about 28 to 31 C Yellows (10 gal) NH4/NH3 = 0 NO2 = 0 NO3 = 20 to 25 PPM Ph 7.5 yo 7.8 GH = 6 to 9 TDS = 280 Temp about 28 to 31C Black Rili (10 gals) NH4/NH3 = 0 NO2 = 0 NO3 = 25 to 30 ppm Ph 7.2 to 7.8 GH = 6 to 9 TDS = 300 Temp about 28 to 30C I do water change with 60/40 filtered water and Tap water Mix. Im just lost that caused it... there were some instances where i saw my PFRS having some molting problems where the shell was still stuck to the shrimp when it died... my GH seems to still be within range but what could cause it? old age leading to a weak molt? but i also had some juvies where it died having a very soft body and a slight break between the head and the body? could it be a bacterial infection? or could the temperature cause stress for them to stop eating and drop the eggs? would really appreciate some insight to helping me solve this puzzle... as a last ditch effort i dosed Paraguard at 50% the recommended dose and pray for the deaths to stop... how long do you guys dose paraguard for? would a 3 day treatment at 50% recommended dose be sufficient and do a water change in the end of the treatment help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Did the deaths occur after a wc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted April 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Hi soothing. Nope the deaths occured just normally every morning when i check the tank. Could certain contaminants affect the shrimp as i just caused some disturbance in the substrate as i was getting rid of cladophora in my dhg. Its'really frustrating. As the deaths also occur in a moss only tank with black sand. Just wanna figure out what causes it so i can find a solution to stop it. I have scheduled to do a partial water change in my pfr tank as thw gh went up to 12 due to the evaporation in my tank as i havs a cooling fan on it 24/7 as the tempts here are reaching 31c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Stoned, some people use tap with great success. When I used it, although params read fine, the shrimp would die off...until I changed to all RO. Challenge is tap conditions can change season to season and in a heartbeat. We do a bunch of tests on water, but we don't test for everything. Have you thought about RO with remin? It may help with survival. IN this case, it would be fairly simple to do a water reset, provided you have the remin product already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted April 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 I have thought of doing something like that. I might consider doing a major water change with pure ro with remin as what u mentioned but wont a huge water change stress the shrimps even further? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 If you do it incorrect, then yes. Gather the water you are going to put into the tank and make it the correct params. Drain the tank of all water except about an inch or so. Use an airline to siphon in the new water. I've never had a berried shrimp drop her eggs or lost any shrimp this way since any changes in params happen so slowly. (I like to aim the water at a glass wall, or have it waterfall into moss to avoid stirring up debris.) And even if you do have 1 DOA for some unknown reason, you have already had a bunch of deaths already, and this can stop them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted April 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Thanks will try it out. Just peeked into my tank looks like i mighr be losing another red one. Oh well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadenlea Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 so is this happening in multiple tanks all of a sudden after being fine for a while? I did small water changed every other day for a long time. The deaths seemed to stop during the water changes but as soon as a couple days with no water change would go by they would start dying again. The water changes changed my water over from tap to RO water. I forget how long I did paragard for. It was at least a week. Might have been 10 days. Take out the carbon/purigen while treating. At the end of the treatment I did a large water change (RO water) and added a UV sterilizer. The sterilizer was a more expensive option but if that is what helped fix the problem it is totally worth it to me. I also removed all of my wood and moss from the tank and started over. I figured lots of bacteria could be hiding in all that wood and moss. I also lowered the temp in the tank to 68. I have since brought it up to 70. I do not know which step did the trick but I seem to have licked my bacterial infection. The tank has been thriving and healthy since just after xmas. I hope some of this can be helpful. I know how heart breaking it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadenlea Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 PS. Obviously lowered the temperature gradually, not all at once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadenlea Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Oh one other thing. I got separate nets/buckets/siphons for my tanks so I would not spread anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted April 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Jaden thanks for your inputs much appreciated. I was also thinkin of going that route of just simply getting a uv filter and see how it goes. Thanks im kinda thinking it might be bacterial again and yes buying individual nets for each individual tank might be the best option. Does anyone know what good regiment would be sufficient to disinfect nets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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