stonedaquarium Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 hi there,I would like to solicit for some advice on this mystery death of my shrimp in my fire red only tank. I have my shrimps in a 5 gal tank, with 2 sponge filters running, and keeping the ph to the range of 7.2 to 6.8 with the help of a few catappa leaves in my tank... and for the past three days i have noticed one dead shrimp, a total of 3 dead as of the moment... they have been in a matured tank, and the readings i get from my test kits are listed below:Ph 7.2 to 7.0 ( sometimes goes to 6.8)Gh 5NO2 zeroNO3 (i dont test, as i dont dose anything in my tank )Further information of the tank is its pretty much shrimp only with mosses and DIY PVC breeding tubes covered with moss. I feed my shrimp once of twice a day with Azoo Max growth and Azoo Max breed. Im solicitiing help from shrimp keeping experts as to why could possibly be the other causes of death. as im completely lost...im currently based in the philippines now where the tap water is far different from the tap water you get from canada.... I know neos are hardy species, and i do have about 5 to 6 berried females and get occassional molts every three days. (the bio load in my 5 gal is about 40 to 50 shrimps, plus about 5 new shrimplets ) though i know you can house about 100 shrimps in a 5 gal tank.One thing that comes to mind is i might be over feeding my shrimp too much max breed as the protein content is pretty high about 45%, which im not sure im making them molt too fast...im humbly asking for help...Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamashack Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Welcome to The Shrimp Spot, stoned! They are natural scavengers so should not need feeding more than a couple of times a week - in fact some people only actively feed once a week or even once every 2 weeks. Do get a NO3 test as shrimp waste and uneaten food could be adding to the load the end result of which is NO3. Aim to have a test result as low as possible and certainly lower then 20 ppm preferably under 10 ppm as shrimp are very sensitive to NO3 more than fish are. Also any tap water can have unknown pollutants that may be fine for humans, but not for fish or shrimp - can you get hold of some RO water and remineralizer? That way you can be sure of the water quality. A good GH for cherry shrimp is 7-9 as this helps them to molt properly and also a slightly alkaline pH - 7.5 ish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted November 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 hello mamashack, thanks for your response... i did test the nitrate and it came back zero. there is alot of moss and most of the time the food is gone... in about a 30 mins... they do finish the food... lol... with regard to the GH i can easily up it up... right now its at 5 dkh but i could easily up it to 6dkh just plan to gradually change it... since its due for a water change already... now i would like to know if whats the ideal ph for Sakuras or fire red neos.... as far as i know they prefer slightly acidic water... ph 6.5 to 7.5 i do have filtered water where its very very soft... TDS of 004 to 010... with GH of 1.... but the problem is the PH of my filtered water is 8.0... i dunno if RO water would be the same... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMG Aquatics Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 hello mamashack, thanks for your response... i did test the nitrate and it came back zero. there is alot of moss and most of the time the food is gone... in about a 30 mins... they do finish the food... lol... with regard to the GH i can easily up it up... right now its at 5 dkh but i could easily up it to 6dkh just plan to gradually change it... since its due for a water change already... now i would like to know if whats the ideal ph for Sakuras or fire red neos.... as far as i know they prefer slightly acidic water... ph 6.5 to 7.5 i do have filtered water where its very very soft... TDS of 004 to 010... with GH of 1.... but the problem is the PH of my filtered water is 8.0... i dunno if RO water would be the same... You must be doing water test wrong like me I alwaysthought my nitrates were 0 but the truth is, I wasnt do test correctly. It is literally impossible to keep nitrates at 0. No matter how much plants I use, the lowest I can get is 10-20ppm christinenha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamashack Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Poopians makes a good point there. Nitrates should show something unless you have a nitrate remover or extremely heavy planting. What nitrate test are you using, stoned? The dip test ones are next to useless and the liquid API one is notoriously difficult to mix and you need to be brutal with agitating the no.2 bottle - sometimes it needs banging against something hard to get the sediment off the bottom and a really good shake to get the 2 reagents in there to mix before adding it to the water with the bottle no.1 drops. pH 7 is neutral, below 7 is acidic and above 7 is alkaline - up to 7.5 is ok for Neos. What do you use to remineralize your water at present? I don't think fire red water requirements are any different to other red cherry grades tho - hopefully someone will correct that if it's not true. christinenha and stonedaquarium 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted November 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Poopians makes a good point there. Nitrates should show something unless you have a nitrate remover or extremely heavy planting. What nitrate test are you using, stoned? The dip test ones are next to useless and the liquid API one is notoriously difficult to mix and you need to be brutal with agitating the no.2 bottle - sometimes it needs banging against something hard to get the sediment off the bottom and a really good shake to get the 2 reagents in there to mix before adding it to the water with the bottle no.1 drops. pH 7 is neutral, below 7 is acidic and above 7 is alkaline - up to 7.5 is ok for Neos. What do you use to remineralize your water at present? I don't think fire red water requirements are any different to other red cherry grades tho - hopefully someone will correct that if it's not true. I guess i might be using my API test wrong.... the soil im using is the ista ph 6.5 which to me doesnt seem to do a good job in buffering the water... or the water might just be weird... lol.... sometimes the tap comes out to be ph 8.0 which is really high... lol but good for sulawesi species... for the nitrate im using API for my test kit... for remineralizing the tank... i use seachem equilibrium... im just waiting for my supply of mosura rich water to arrive... i hope that helps... currently so far my berried shrimps ( 4 to 5 at the moment ) seem to be holding on to their eggs... hopefully no more mortalitieis ... and hope to look forward to a growing colony rather than a dying colony hehe. . christinenha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamashack Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 It's not a case of using it wrong, but you do need to be aware that more than just a gentle shake of the contents of the bottles is needed. Might be worth doing another test making sure the bottles are sufficiently agitated. If it's not raised at least you'll know it isn't and can look elsewhere for the problem. If it is raised then you can easily remedy that. christinenha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHe Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 for API nitrate test kit, you need shake it really HARD! and neos prefer pH >7 mayphly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 thanks for the input and feedback guys... much appreciated... now i followed your advice and gave a good hard and heavy shake to the API test kit. and got a reading of 5 to 10 ppm. as i only feed a quarter of a hikari algae wafer once or twice a day... sad to say i found another dead one, but this one was i guess due to old age... as it was the biggest one and was the only shrimp who didnt seem to want to forage for food... i hope no more shrimps die off on me hehehehe... also what Ph do you keep your shrimps at? i managed to get hold of some citric acid as part of my DIY Co2 mix... i wonder if citric acid would be safe to use in an aquarium tank to lower the ph and hold it stable ?... i know baking soda is used to increase ph... just not sure about citric acid... i tried some acid buffers from seachem (acid buffer in particular) doesnt seem to work or hold the ph very long... the last ph buffer that worked well in the past what nutrafin ph down. that product worked great for my old CRS tank where it keep the ph at 6.0 and stayed at 6.0... the seachem acid buffer worked but only kept the ph low for about 2 to 3 days before reverting back to the normal ph of tap water... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamashack Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 5-10 ppm nitrate should be ok. I keep my Neos at 7.8 mainly because that's what the water settles at and I don't feel confident to start messing about with it - it's extremely difficult even for experts and I'm still very much learning this craft of shrimp-keeping. It may be the fluctuating pH that is affecting your shrimp. Do you know your KH result? It may be that you have some natural buffers in your water that are keeping the pH where it is and that is a good thing for neos and other shrimp needing alkaline water. What does your pH run at before adding it to the tank? If you use tap water run some and let it stand for 24 hrs then test the pH. It may seem like a small shift from say 7.0 to 7.2 but in reality the difference is much more than that. It's a logarithmic scale not just simple numbers and very complicated and since I am chemistry-blind I can't explain it, but someone will be able to if you want to know. For me it's like driving a car - I know which pedals to use and when, but don't know anything about the mechanics! lol Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted November 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 yeah i guess that might have happened yesterday i came home to 3 dead shrimp... after messing with the ph... its kinda tricky when you do a water change where the ph is 7.8 to 8 and your tank is at 7.2... kinda messes things up when you check your ph 2 hours after to see it went up to 8.!!! its the ph shock i guess that might be killing my shrimps... or they might have over grown their 5 gal tank... but i only have about 40 adults and about 10 to 15 shrimplets... was just choked to lose 2 berried shrimp... well on the bright side it gives me a chance to test artificial hatching... hope this works so that those deaths wont be in vain ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryboy12484 Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Well buddy good luck to ya ... Ive had 7 deaths in 3 day myself... In my fire red colony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamashack Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Sorry for both your losses, stoned and country! They are certainly not as hardy or easy to look after as some websites would suggest, are they? I know some people sail through their cherry shrimp journey and I think they are just lucky enough to have the right water parameters without much intervention. pictokid1983 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted November 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Sorry for both your losses, stoned and country! They are certainly not as hardy or easy to look after as some websites would suggest, are they? I know some people sail through their cherry shrimp journey and I think they are just lucky enough to have the right water parameters without much intervention. well on the flip side... i seem to be finding more shrimplets... i just hope those deaths were attributed to old age... but its just weird that my blue pearl tank.... my shrimps seem to be doing well... hrm... interesting... considering that the water i used in my blue pearl tank was also from the same source as my fire reds... the blue pearls though are in a 10 gal tank... where as the fire reds are in a 5 gal tank... i mean... the size of the tank shouldnt really matter to begin with as i had once kept a colony of 60 CRS ss grades in a 5 gal tank no problem.... well im expecting another batch of red rilis soon and some more fire reds... i hope no more drastic or mass die off happens... would it be just better to do a reset on my fire red tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 In a fiver, if you have a couple deaths the ammonia can spike, which can cause other issues, which can lead to more deaths and have a vicious cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted November 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 In a fiver, if you have a couple deaths the ammonia can spike, which can cause other issues, which can lead to more deaths and have a vicious cycle. soothing, I tested the NH4 and NO2 and NO3 after those deaths and again today... so far no more loses... but it has been a challenge indeed... its just funny coz my blue pearl tank is thriving... hehehehe ??? could this also attribute to the fact that the fire reds are in a smaller tank while the blue pearls are in a bigger tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 That definitely could help. The larger the volume of water, the more stable the params are, and the more time you can find something before it goes seriously awry. I find the smaller tanks are hard to keep stable with TDS and temp because of evaporation, but others such as Wicca do just fine. Congrats on the no more losses! stonedaquarium 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted November 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 looks like i need to make another trip to the LFS to pick me up some new tanks then... hehehehe... Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamashack Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 MTS strikes again! lol (as in multiple tank syndrome not malaysian trumpet snails! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted November 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 MTS strikes again! lol (as in multiple tank syndrome not malaysian trumpet snails! ) Mamashack, if only we could house our different types of neos into one tank then we wont have to succumb to MTS... lol... unfortunately for us, neos couldnt be mixed... hehehe... otherwise we would have brown colored neos lol... current setup includes 1 20 gal iwagumi hardscape ( still in the process of setting it up, saviing up for a co2 regulator and another canister filter ) 1 20 gal planted tank ( no shrimps, my solenoid malfunctioned and ended up choking my shrimps however, cardinals seem to be loving the really acidic water lol 1 5 gal fire red tank 1 10 gal blue pearls with about 45 blue pearls 1 10 gal red rili tank with about 65 rilis ( incoming tomorrow !! ) MTS it is.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamashack Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Started with 1 and ended up with 4, but I literally have nowhere else to put any more! lol Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 One can always find another place if you look hard enough. Shrimpie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamashack Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 I said that 2 tanks ago and now I really mean it! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedaquarium Posted November 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Got some bad news... lost another berried fire red. Just kinda weirded out that this berried one just died after i did a water change and its only my fire red colony experiencing mystery deaths my blue pearls and rilis are doing fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamashack Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 So sorry to hear that, stoned! It's bad enough losing a single shrimp and more so for the berried ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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