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Shrimp tank cycling


Razzy

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Hello! New member here and posting about my fluval spec 5 gallon tank I'm currently cycling to get ready for some shrimp :)

 

I've had it set up for around 4 weeks. For the past week Ammonias been 0-0.50 ppm. Nitrites are really elevated to 2.0ppm and nitrates are elevated to 40-80 ppm.

I've been doing some water changes to keep the NITRATES and NITRITES down but is there something else i can do? I'm afraid that the cycle is stsalling maybe or should i just continue doing what im doing with the water changes every day.

 

I did also add tetra safestart like 2 weeks ago. I also have prime to help lower nitrites and nitrates and test the water with my API master test kit. I'm just worried about the cycle stalling. It's my first fish tank. Thanks for your inputs. 

 

Did a bit of research and most ppl say it's just at i t's peak and I'm close to finishing the cycle and it'll soon seem like the high ratings drop off a cliff.. but not sure.

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Hi Razzy.

I would also think you're almost there.

For starters i can tell you that my API test kit reads 0.25ppm Ammonia when in reality it is zero.

Are you using ADA Aquasoil (or similar Ammonia leaching substrate)? Numbers like that from an empty tank look like Aquasoil unless your doing a fishfood cycle.

I don't think you're going to stall your cycle. If your Nitrates are that high and you're doing water changes your bio is just fine.

The only way i know to stall a cycle is really low pH, really high Ammonia or your bio bed runs out of food.

If you using Aquasoil I would keep doing water changes until your Nitrites hit zero and Ntrates are 0-10. Then add your Shrimp or a tiny amount of fish food for the bio bed.

If your not using aquasoil you need to find out what is creating all that waste.

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If you keep reducing the ammonia and nitrite you are removing the very stuff that the 2 types of bacteria feed on and so it will take much longer to cycle. The cycle won't stall until the nitrite hits 16ppm so best not to get that high. Most test kits only go up to 5ppm but you can establish the actual level by doing dilution testing with RO/DI water. 

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If you keep reducing the ammonia and nitrite you are removing the very stuff that the 2 types of bacteria feed on and so it will take much longer to cycle. The cycle won't stall until the nitrite hits 16ppm so best not to get that high. Most test kits only go up to 5ppm but you can establish the actual level by doing dilution testing with RO/DI water. 

From all the articles I've read, Ammonia and Nitrite should not go past 4ppm or it will stall. How u get 16ppm?  

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Hi Razzy.

I would also think you're almost there.

For starters i can tell you that my API test kit reads 0.25ppm Ammonia when in reality it is zero.

Are you using ADA Aquasoil (or similar Ammonia leaching substrate)? Numbers like that from an empty tank look like Aquasoil unless your doing a fishfood cycle.

I don't think you're going to stall your cycle. If your Nitrates are that high and you're doing water changes your bio is just fine.

The only way i know to stall a cycle is really low pH, really high Ammonia or your bio bed runs out of food.

If you using Aquasoil I would keep doing water changes until your Nitrites hit zero and Ntrates are 0-10. Then add your Shrimp or a tiny amount of fish food for the bio bed.

If your not using aquasoil you need to find out what is creating all that waste.

Hello! 

I am not using aqua soil. I did have two Oto's in there as tetra safestart mentioned on the bottle to add fish in, but I was told to remove them since the nitrates and nitrites are so high. And they are sensitive ( dont want any fish death ). 

I don't know where all the waste is coming from. I have live plants in there. My water wisteria has all turned black and its leaves are falling off but I make sure to fish out any dead leaves. When you say to add in a shrimp do you mean a live one or a dead piece from the supermarket ? if so how long do i leave that in ? Wont that yuck up the water?

 

I do believe I also have planeria worms in there from when i was feeding the otos food. But atm my tanks just filled with live plants and spiking nitrites and nitrates .

I really hope I'm able to finish off this cycle soon or these spikes mean im coming close.

 

Thanks everyone.

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The ammonia may be from food breaking down and the rest may have done by the Safe Start, Razzy

Poopians - I got the information from a guy on another website who is an expert on cycling - you are right that ammonia shouldn't go above 3 ppm actually and should only be added when the level drops to 0.5ppm or less. The comment I made about the nitrites is correct as far as I remember - the link for the source I used is as follows: http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

Apologies if linking to another site is bad manners.

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Nice to see you here, Razzy! ^^

 

If you have only plants in the tank, I would wait until ammonia and nitrites get to 0, do a large (50-80% water change) or at least until nitrates get down below 20, and then you should be good. Plants can use both ammonia and nitrate, so I'm sure they will be fine.

 

Here's a link to fishless cycling (using ammonia): http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_fishless.php

 

And here's a link to silent cycling (a form of fishless cycling using plants): http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_silent_cycling.php

 

I completed a silent cycle in my tank, and my shrimp are thriving (as you've seen in my videos). I will try the fishless cycling in my new 20L, but it looks like it is a safer, quicker alternative to using fish/other specimens.

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@ Christine 

Hello! Actually joined here fro ma suggestion of one of your videos :D haha nice to see you here.

 

I initially wanted to do a fishless cycle with an ammonia source and everywhere i looked online suggested the ACE hardware ammonia and there is only one around my location.. but when I went to the address it was a golf course (whoops). And I couldnt locate any suitable ammonia around me at all.

 

So is everyone's suggestion to add ammonia into it ? There's just so many  articles, information, that I'm just sort of lost atm. Am I doing the right thing now with water changing it to reduce the nitrates and nitrites or should i just let it continue on like that. Sorry I'm such a beginner.

If so I think the only t hing I have access to is fish food, and I could pick up raw shrimp during the weekend... so as for now I'll just leave my live plants and just continue letting the filter run.

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I think the best thing to do is pick a tried and tested method and then stick rigidly with whichever one you decide on otherwise it's going to be terribly confusing as you've found. The only thing about adding fish food and/or shrimp is you've no idea how much ammonia will be produced and that does run the risk of then converting to too much nitrite and stalling the cycle.

I know people here in the UK who just add something like Safe Start and put their shrimp in as they don't produce much waste. Many people have succeeded with shrimp using this approach. Personally I prefer to do a fishless cycle, but that's my choice. If I couldn't get hold of a known ammonia source I think I'd be tempted to do the Safe Start and add your shrimp method.

Once you've got them don't overfeed as planaria proliferate when there's lots of leftover food and I've been told they can affect young shrimp altho I have no experience of planaria or this myself.

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I tried finding ammonia at ACE as well, what they carried had a cleaning agent in it and would be horrible if you used it.  The best place to get pure amonia is at the grocery store in the cleaning aisle probably near clothes detergents.  Make sure the ingredients says like "Amonia chloride" only or something like that.  To be sure it should also be clear then pick up the bottle and shake it really good it shouldnt produce soap bubbles.  If you are doing a fishless cycle and follow the directions I dont do any water changes until the cycle is complete.  And that is just to remove the bulk of the nitrates that build up.  Doing water changes during the cycle will lower the concentrations of amonia and nitrites which you need to have bacteria that eat those populate. Like mamashack said pick one method and stick to it.  My last tank I stuck to my fishless cycle routine stirictly and it was very quick and easy.  When dosing pure amonia you need tiny tiny amounts To get my 7.5g tank (about 5.5g water)  to .50ppm concentration I needed three drops.  To help with dosing go to any pharmacy counter and ask them if you could purchase or have (they gave me three for free) a liquid dosing syringe for babies.  It is a 1mL syringe with graduations of .1mL broken down even smaller.

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http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=24530

 

Was going to give you an amazon link that usually sold for $5 but now they bumped up the price way too high.

 

The instructions for that say one drop per gallon?  That sounds high.  I would be really carefull I killed a cycle with my first tank by adding too much Amonia and wondered why it wasnt going anywhere.  I would start with 1 drop per two gallons and then test to see where its at.

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With the ammonia you buy at grocery stores, you have no clue how much ammonia is being added.

With the one I provided, "Add 1 drop of solution per gallon of aquarium water to achieve an ammonia-nitrogen (NH3-N) concentration of 2 mg/L-N (2 ppm). "

 

Thats a good point I guess the grocery store amonia could be different concentrations.  I guess my logic is to go on the lower side test the water and see exactly where you are at.  But if that solution is calibrated like that then I guess you wouldnt have to worry.  I figure I would test my water no matter what after adding Amonia.  I wish a company made an all in one digital dip device that reads all your levels and displays it instantly.  I would pay 300$ for something like that.

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I think the best thing to do is pick a tried and tested method and then stick rigidly with whichever one you decide on otherwise it's going to be terribly confusing as you've found. The only thing about adding fish food and/or shrimp is you've no idea how much ammonia will be produced and that does run the risk of then converting to too much nitrite and stalling the cycle.

I know people here in the UK who just add something like Safe Start and put their shrimp in as they don't produce much waste. Many people have succeeded with shrimp using this approach. Personally I prefer to do a fishless cycle, but that's my choice. If I couldn't get hold of a known ammonia source I think I'd be tempted to do the Safe Start and add your shrimp method.

Once you've got them don't overfeed as planaria proliferate when there's lots of leftover food and I've been told they can affect young shrimp altho I have no experience of planaria or this myself.

I actually did put safestart in my current cycling shrimp tank and I bought some feeder fish and two otos as the bottle says to add in live fish (so I guess a fish in cycle with safestart) But then I read up and found out oto's are sensitive and feeder fish might have disease and as there are no other fish I wanted to keep with my shrimp (I've only read that oto are the only shrimp safe fish) I tried returning the oto's and feeder fish. Atm I actually have one oto and I returned another oto ( for some reason the place would only take back one oto that I purchased... :( So I had to keep the lone oto) as of now I have that one oto in my tank but I'm just kind of scared for it. It seems to be doing quite well to be honest and it's always cleaning the tank,sticking onto stems of plans,leaves etc. And it doesn't seem to be doing anything out of the ordinary, it's been in there for 3 or so weeks now.

 
 

I tried finding ammonia at ACE as well, what they carried had a cleaning agent in it and would be horrible if you used it.  The best place to get pure amonia is at the grocery store in the cleaning aisle probably near clothes detergents.  Make sure the ingredients says like "Amonia chloride" only or something like that.  To be sure it should also be clear then pick up the bottle and shake it really good it shouldnt produce soap bubbles.  If you are doing a fishless cycle and follow the directions I dont do any water changes until the cycle is complete.  And that is just to remove the bulk of the nitrates that build up.  Doing water changes during the cycle will lower the concentrations of amonia and nitrites which you need to have bacteria that eat those populate. Like mamashack said pick one method and stick to it.  My last tank I stuck to my fishless cycle routine stirictly and it was very quick and easy.  When dosing pure amonia you need tiny tiny amounts To get my 7.5g tank (about 5.5g water)  to .50ppm concentration I needed three drops.  To help with dosing go to any pharmacy counter and ask them if you could purchase or have (they gave me three for free) a liquid dosing syringe for babies.  It is a 1mL syringe with graduations of .1mL broken down even smaller.

 

I tried looking for ammonia from my grocery stores too... everyone had LEMON scented or some other scented ammonia :( believe me I went everywhere I could from dollar stores to walmarts to liquor stores. NOTHING. I didn't thinking finding a clear ammonia would be so hard (it was the kind of cycling i wanted to do in the beginning btu I lack the ammonia source).

 

The instructions for that say one drop per gallon?  That sounds high.  I would be really carefull I killed a cycle with my first tank by adding too much Amonia and wondered why it wasnt going anywhere.  I would start with 1 drop per two gallons and then test to see where its at.

 

I thought about buying this for my ammonia source but a lot of people told me it wasn't good at all? But at this point I think I'll have to purchase a bottle. Do you suggest I dose my tank with this atm ? I now have an oto that I cannot return in my tank. 

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In the UK there's a product called Kleenoff which is just ammonia 9.5% in water with no additives/surfactants etc.

Don't know if it's available in the US but since no-one has mentioned it before I assume it isn't.

I found this on eBay.com, but it is actually listed from the UK:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Kleenoff-Household-Ammonia-500ml-Ammonia-Cleaning-amp-Laundry-/171363390609?pt=UK_Clocks&hash=item27e60dd491

There's a calculator on www.fishforums.net which is very handy for working out what is required if you scroll down to the bottom of the page:

http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm

You can change the concentration desired, tank volume and ammonia strength and it will compute how many mls are need to achieve required ppm

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I actually did put safestart in my current cycling shrimp tank and I bought some feeder fish and two otos as the bottle says to add in live fish (so I guess a fish in cycle with safestart) But then I read up and found out oto's are sensitive and feeder fish might have disease and as there are no other fish I wanted to keep with my shrimp (I've only read that oto are the only shrimp safe fish) I tried returning the oto's and feeder fish. Atm I actually have one oto and I returned another oto ( for some reason the place would only take back one oto that I purchased... :( So I had to keep the lone oto) as of now I have that one oto in my tank but I'm just kind of scared for it. It seems to be doing quite well to be honest and it's always cleaning the tank,sticking onto stems of plans,leaves etc. And it doesn't seem to be doing anything out of the ordinary, it's been in there for 3 or so weeks now.

 
 

 

I tried looking for ammonia from my grocery stores too... everyone had LEMON scented or some other scented ammonia :( believe me I went everywhere I could from dollar stores to walmarts to liquor stores. NOTHING. I didn't thinking finding a clear ammonia would be so hard (it was the kind of cycling i wanted to do in the beginning btu I lack the ammonia source).

 

 

I thought about buying this for my ammonia source but a lot of people told me it wasn't good at all? But at this point I think I'll have to purchase a bottle. Do you suggest I dose my tank with this atm ? I now have an oto that I cannot return in my tank. 

 

 I would say if you have an Oto in the tank that you cannot remove then dosing with amonia would be bad for the fish.  The benefit to fishless cycling is the cycle time which is shortened by being able to dose high levels of amonia that you wouldnt be able to add if you had anything in the tank.  At this point I would just continue with your fish in cycle and keep checking your water parameters.  What are your current parameters and how often do you check them?

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 I would say if you have an Oto in the tank that you cannot remove then dosing with amonia would be bad for the fish.  The benefit to fishless cycling is the cycle time which is shortened by being able to dose high levels of amonia that you wouldnt be able to add if you had anything in the tank.  At this point I would just continue with your fish in cycle and keep checking your water parameters.  What are your current parameters and how often do you check them?

I'd really like to speed it up... I only got the otos because safestart says to add in fish with the bacteria and not water change for two weeks. So I guess I'll pass up on the ammonia.

I check my water parameters usually every other day.

 

Current parameters are

Ammonia: 0.50ppm

Nitrite: 0.25 ppm ( these used to spike to around 5.0ppm but has recently dropped down)

Nitrate: 40ppm

 

Feeling kind of discouraged atm :( 

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Hmm I have found when im cycling my ammonia will start to dissappear then Nitrite will spike and hold steady for a few days at 5ppm then dissappear to zero overnight.  That indicates I am almost done cycling.  What temp is your tank?  I crank mine up to 80-82 it helps the bacteria colonize faster if you think the fish can handle it you might try turning your heater up.

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My temp stats at around 78-80.

 

I just tested my water parameters again.

Ammonia: 0-0.25 ppm  it's teetering between the two colors. a light green and a yellow

Nitrite:  0 - 0.25ppm this is also teetering between a light purple and a light blue.

Nitrate: 80-160ppm This is the only one so far that likes to spike and stay there.

 

Nitrites used to spike to 5ppm for around a week or so but now it's dropping down to near 0.

Nitrates are still up there.

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That's what happens with nitrites - they seem to hang high for ages then suddenly they drop. It sounds like you are very close to being cycled. To be fully cycled the ammonia and nitrite need to be 0 after 24 hrs of adding ammonia. 

Don't forget to do a BIG BIG water change before adding stock to reduce those nitrates which will need to be below 20 for the shrimp to feel comfortable. Personally I work on 10-20 nitrates and try to do a water change if the nitrates get above 10.

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Is it fine that the ammonia has never spiked past 1ppm ? I thought everything would spike but I've only had nitrite and nitrate spike. 
And I actually have an oto in the tank that's doing really well and has a round tummy. SO I don't know if I should be adding ammonia to the tank since the oto's in it.

 

I'm really hoping the cycle is nearing it's end. I've tried doing a lot of things in my life and I end up failing or giving up, but I really really wanna do this and take care of shrimp. It's just sort of frustrating now since I tend to have bad luck and things usually always go wrong.

 

Welp. Me ranting. 
Thanks for all the help guys.

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It sounds like your tank is pretty much cycled although it is odd that you are still showing some nitrites.  Once my nitrites spike to 5ppm then they drop to zero and always stay there.  I would say with a nitrate build up that high the nitrite eating bacteria are colonized and working.  What type of shrimp are you looking to put in the tank and where were you planning on getting them from?  Dont give up, my first tank cycle was a disaster and then introducing shrimp was an exspensive disaster. I lost around 125$ worth of shrimp mostly because of my impatience.  This hobby requires patience which I found I really didnt have but keeping shrimp has also helped me to devolop patience. 

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