Black Aragonite

[Aennedry]

So this spring/summer I am planning on rescaping and updating setups. My first project I wish to work on is combining my two opa'ula tanks into one. I threw the first together, and used leftover for the second, so this time I would like to do a nice planned setup. And for that I want black aragonite sand to go with my lava rocks and to mach my general tank theme. Does anyone know where I can find a ten pound bag or so of dry black aragonite? Locally I can get the CaribSea live black Hawaiian, but it is not pure black; there are little colored flakes in there, and I am not sure how the bacteria would react to being in a brackish tank versus a marine tank. I do not want to deal with a massive bacteria die-off. I wouldn't have thought this to be so difficult, but after a web crawl it seems that you can get most any color dry, except plain black, the gold was interesting but red shrimp on pink sand is a no.

So if anyone can help, thank you.

=^._.^=

[sarah]

Have you seen this one? I don't know how black it is in real life but it looks pretty awesome in a quick google image search. http://www.amazon.com/Carib-Sea-ACS00821-Tahitian-Aquarium/dp/B007R55QUU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458744330&sr=8-1&keywords=black+moon+sand

[Aennedry]

It does look good, and would do in a pinch, but the aragonite would be buffering my tank. One of the few times you want to buffer a shrimp tank near 8. I was also looking for a slightly larger grain size.

=^._.^=

[ShrimpP]

Black Diamond Blasting Sand is a common inert (won't alter your pH) black sand many people use. It's really cheap too, and doesn't have those metallic flakes that Tahitian Moon sand has.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/black-diamond-medium-blasting-abrasives

See if there is a location in your area. I have heard of other stores also stocking it, but can't remember if they were home improvement/hardware stores, quarries/stone yards or automotive stores (sand blasting).

There are two grain sizes available, so go with whatever you prefer. 

Opae Ula are very very adaptable so I wouldn't see any worry about using inert substrates. Even using aragonite (calcium carbonate) should be fine.

[Aennedry]

The blasting sand looks good... and there is a store one hours drive away, I have gone further for hydrostone. And at that price I could redo all my tanks, not just the opae'ula.

[ShrimpP]

Yeah, it's a cheap, great looking sand. Just give it a good rinse before adding it to the tank. It doesn't cloud the tank, but you may get some collection on the water surface, but a quick rinse before adding and you are good. Tons of people use it with no issues. Enjoy!

[Soothing Shrimp]

I used something similar for all my neo tanks. 

$8 a 50 lb bag.  I found mine at the local hardware store. (Menards)

[Soothing Shrimp]

A tip- if you use a blasting sand, run a bubbler overnight after adding the sand.  It will help the floating particles sink.

 

Also, I found if I fill my tanks with water FIRST, then pour the sand into the water by large cups, it spreads itself and self levels.  After the cloudiness goes away by the next day, it looks pretty good.

[Jadenlea]

I did  a  couple tanks in the early days with the blasting sand.  It is cheap and it looked great but for me, getting it clean took forever.   The first time I used it, I rinsed forever but still my tank was filthy for weeks, the gray grit got all over the glass and the water took forever to clear.  The second time  I did a bit better but still, rinsing took forever.     I finally just decided it was worth the extra money to just buy the tahitian moonsand, which was my favorite for a long time.

 

[Soothing Shrimp]

I don't even bother to wash it. LOL

 

[ShrimpP]

Must be a different brand of blasting sand. The Black Diamond brand is very clean. I think the bag even says it's prewashed. Many people have used it in their planted tanks without rinsing and it doesn't cloud or leave debris/specks everywhere, though some say they get a collection of some loose floating coal slag particles and maybe a oil slick on the water surface (from the material, not a protein bacterial film). A quick surface skim clears that up.

[nvidiagefore]

Argonite vs crushed coral which one buffers the water more ?

[ShrimpP]

Aragonite and Crushed Coral (oyster shells, egg shells, etc) are pretty much the same exact thing, Calcium Carbonate. In fact, coral is composed of aragonite. Since they are pretty much the same thing, Calcium Carbonate, they would both buffer the same, keeping the pH around 8 (8.2 to be more precise).

Usually when talking about aragonite vs crushed coral, aragonite is referred to be finer grains of sand, while crushed coral is larger chunks (literally crushed coral). Most people prefer aragonite sand if using as a substrate (you don't actually have to use either as a substrate, you can place it in your filter if you wanted). Aragonite sand being smaller pieces, they have more surface in relation to volume so they technically can act/buffer quicker (can be a bad thing if causing sudden/too fast drastic parameter fluctuation from acidic water), but that's doesn't mean much since they only dissolve at certain pH (when it's below the "natural pH" of 8)

 

Crushed oyster shells, cuttle bone are also calcium carbonate, though I did come across someone breaking it down further that can explain why crushed oyster shells may buffer slightly lower than a pH of 8 (good read)

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?140851-high-pH-due-to-crushed-oyster-shell&p=2333050#post2333050

I know a fair amount about aquarium-related chemistry, but RickF clearly has more knowledge on chemistry than me.

If the above is true, then I would think Aragonite (pure Calcium Carbonate from what I hear) would have a slightly higher pH than Crushed oyster shells. 

 

What's the reason for wanting to use Aragonite/Crush corals?

If you just want a stable pH, a KH of 3dKH is usually good enough and you wouldn't have to have your pH be that high (8). Remember those mentioned above also have calcium, so your GH (General Hardness) would rise as well.

Limestone is similar to crushed coral and can be used to the same effect.

If you just want to raise KH/buffering and pH, without raising GH, you can use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). 

There are other buffers as well such as Phosphates, but they aren't usually desired.

If I knew what you were trying to accomplish, I may be able to give a recommendation.

[nvidiagefore]

4 hours ago, ShrimpP said:

Aragonite and Crushed Coral (oyster shells, egg shells, etc) are pretty much the same exact thing, Calcium Carbonate. In fact, coral is composed of aragonite. Since they are pretty much the same thing, Calcium Carbonate, they would both buffer the same, keeping the pH around 8 (8.2 to be more precise).

Usually when talking about aragonite vs crushed coral, aragonite is referred to be finer grains of sand, while crushed coral is larger chunks (literally crushed coral). Most people prefer aragonite sand if using as a substrate (you don't actually have to use either as a substrate, you can place it in your filter if you wanted). Aragonite sand being smaller pieces, they have more surface in relation to volume so they technically can act/buffer quicker (can be a bad thing if causing sudden/too fast drastic parameter fluctuation from acidic water), but that's doesn't mean much since they only dissolve at certain pH (when it's below the "natural pH" of 8)

 

Crushed oyster shells, cuttle bone are also calcium carbonate, though I did come across someone breaking it down further that can explain why crushed oyster shells may buffer slightly lower than a pH of 8 (good read)

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?140851-high-pH-due-to-crushed-oyster-shell&p=2333050#post2333050

I know a fair amount about aquarium-related chemistry, but RickF clearly has more knowledge on chemistry than me.

If the above is true, then I would think Aragonite (pure Calcium Carbonate from what I hear) would have a slightly higher pH than Crushed oyster shells. 

 

What's the reason for wanting to use Aragonite/Crush corals?

If you just want a stable pH, a KH of 3dKH is usually good enough and you wouldn't have to have your pH be that high (8). Remember those mentioned above also have calcium, so your GH (General Hardness) would rise as well.

Limestone is similar to crushed coral and can be used to the same effect.

If you just want to raise KH/buffering and pH, without raising GH, you can use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). 

There are other buffers as well such as Phosphates, but they aren't usually desired.

If I knew what you were trying to accomplish, I may be able to give a recommendation.

Trying to raise Cardinal shrimps. I like argonite because it is available for cheap at some aquarium stores near my place. The reason I do not like argonite is I do not like to see particles of argonite fly around everytime I do waterchange. I do not like crushed coral because most of the crushed coral I ever seen is too big for my like, afraid shrimplet migjt get stucked between pieces. What am I planing to do is 80% of the substrate is argonite. On top of that is fine-medium crushed coral. Trying to achieve ph of 8.5 here.

[ShrimpP]

I haven't used Aragonite sand myself so I can't comment on how messy it is. I also have no first hand experience with Sulawesi shrimp so I am of little help.

I suggest posting a separate thread in regards to what is the best water parameters for keeping/breeding Cardinal shrimp. There are some threads out there, but the water parameters mentioned seem to vary a bit, I'm not sure which is best. When researching, make sure to look specifically at Cardinal shrimp, not just any Sulawesi species, as water parameters can vary among them.

Sulawesi shrimp are said to be fairly sensitive, needing specific high temperatures (80*F+), high pH (heard between 7-8.5, some say 7.5 is best, some say 8+ is best), and needing a rather low GH (heard around 6dGH is okay) and TDS (100-300). I honestly don't know what Calcium Carbonate would bring the GH and TDS levels too, you could test it, but they may be higher than wanted. So I am not sure I would really sure about using Aragonite or Crushed coral/oyster shells for Sulawesi shrimp. I only say that, because I really just don't know, I haven't tested the levels. However, I do believe it would work, with KH/PH, GH and TDS being at suitable levels for keeping Cardinals. Just can't say I am 100% sure. If you want to be sure though, many people use the product called Salty Shrimp Sulawesi 7.5 or 8.5 (again I've seen some say 7.5 pH is better, and some say 8+ is better)

Found some threads for you that may help (the first one, Mayphly reports good results with SS 7.5)

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/shrimp-other-invertebrates/74142-sulawesi-shrimp.html

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/sulawesi-cardinal-shrimp.5982/

http://www.shrimpery.com/shrimps/item/cardinal-shrimp

https://www.petshrimp.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?t=4117 This person is using coral sand

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/88-shrimp-other-invertebrates/107239-sulawesi-shrimp-guide-*-progress*.html

http://www.planetinverts.com/Cardinal_Shrimp.html

[nvidiagefore]

5 hours ago, ShrimpP said:

I haven't used Aragonite sand myself so I can't comment on how messy it is. I also have no first hand experience with Sulawesi shrimp so I am of little help.

I suggest posting a separate thread in regards to what is the best water parameters for keeping/breeding Cardinal shrimp. There are some threads out there, but the water parameters mentioned seem to vary a bit, I'm not sure which is best. When researching, make sure to look specifically at Cardinal shrimp, not just any Sulawesi species, as water parameters can vary among them.

Sulawesi shrimp are said to be fairly sensitive, needing specific high temperatures (80*F+), high pH (heard between 7-8.5, some say 7.5 is best, some say 8+ is best), and needing a rather low GH (heard around 6dGH is okay) and TDS (100-300). I honestly don't know what Calcium Carbonate would bring the GH and TDS levels too, you could test it, but they may be higher than wanted. So I am not sure I would really sure about using Aragonite or Crushed coral/oyster shells for Sulawesi shrimp. I only say that, because I really just don't know, I haven't tested the levels. However, I do believe it would work, with KH/PH, GH and TDS being at suitable levels for keeping Cardinals. Just can't say I am 100% sure. If you want to be sure though, many people use the product called Salty Shrimp Sulawesi 7.5 or 8.5 (again I've seen some say 7.5 pH is better, and some say 8+ is better)

Found some threads for you that may help (the first one, Mayphly reports good results with SS 7.5)

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/shrimp-other-invertebrates/74142-sulawesi-shrimp.html

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/sulawesi-cardinal-shrimp.5982/

http://www.shrimpery.com/shrimps/item/cardinal-shrimp

https://www.petshrimp.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?t=4117 This person is using coral sand

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/88-shrimp-other-invertebrates/107239-sulawesi-shrimp-guide-*-progress*.html

http://www.planetinverts.com/Cardinal_Shrimp.html

Thanks for the tremendous amount of help. My supplier is raising his cardinal shrimps in PH of 8.5. Not so sure about GH and KH. He also uses the SS Sulawesi 8.5 remineralizer.

[Aennedry]

My tank is brackish. If I go with the blasting sand, would ordinary seashells be enough to keep the ph up for my opae'ula? I do have a collection of small shells and smooth shell chips I have collected on vacation at OBX, well cleaned of course. Opae'ula are tough little shrimp, but I don't want to subject them to a possible ph crash.

=^._.^=