The most unscientific of "studies..."

[Tannin Aquatics]

Are you into the look of leaf litter in your aquascape? As evidenced by recent customer activity, more and more shrimp keepers are trying leaves and botanicals, which is cool!

If you are, you've probably incorporated Catappa and other leaves into your 'scapes before. And perhaps, you might have considered the beautiful Guava leaf, too! A lot of our customers love the look of leaf litter, but they are a bit leery of the "tint" that Catappa leaves create, and are also concerned with the long-term viability of the leaves.

This is one of many excellent reasons to consider using Guava leaves instead. They have a few advantages over Catappa, namely, they are more "durable", lasting longer in submerged situations than Catappa, and they impart significantly less tannins into the water.

What this means to you, the aquarist, is that you can have many of the aesthetic advantages of Catappa leaves, without some of the characteristics you might find unattractive. Guava (Psidium guajava) provides many chemical benefits for aquarium use, including their well-documented antibacterial properties and their great value as a supplemental food source for ornamental shrimp.  

We recommend that you steep them in boiling water for 10 minutes or so prior to use, which will help soften them and make them more palatable to shrimp, as well as to foster a "biofilm" on their surfaces, which provides supplemental grazing for shrimp and small fishes, and fry. As mentioned above, Guava leaves dissolve much more slowly than other leaves, and will last longer before requiring replacement. If you're like us, you'll leave them "in situ" until they completely break down.

So, just how much tint can one expect from Guava versus, say, Catappa leaves of similar size? There is no perfect answer, but I conducted a small and very unscientific experiment to see for myself just how much "tint" they impart.

I prepared 4 "nano"-sized Catappa leaves by steeping them for 10 minutes in boiling water, then placing them in 1 gallon of RO water. I did the same thing with 4 typical-sized Guava leaves. 

After 24 hours, the "tint" of the water in the container containing the Catappa leaves was quite significant, whereas the water in the container containing the Guava leaves was much less visually affected. Regrettably, since this "experiment" was about visual impact, I failed to take a before and after pH test on each container- something I will do next time for sure.

The bottom line, as you can clearly see, is that the Guava leaves are an excellent alternative for hobbyists looking for a more modest "tint" to their water. Of course, the impact from both Catappa and Guava can be limited, or mitigated entirely with chemical filtration media, such as activated carbon, Poly Filter, Purigen, etc., along with frequent water changes with "untinted" fresh water.

GUAVA

 

 CATAPPA

As you surmise, these are ratios of leaves to water that you would not normally utilize, but I figured, for sake of this "experiment", that they would provide enough distinct visuals for you to see the difference. Next time, I'll check parameters and be a bit more "scientific" in my approach, but I'd say that this little demo did its job.

In the end, the choice is yours, and the effects can vary widely, depending upon the initial source water you start with, and a myriad of other possible factors. Regardless, it's always a good idea to go in with your eyes wide open, as the case may be, to get a good "feel" for the potential of these awesome and highly versatile aquatic botanicals.

Until next time...

Stay curious. Stay "tinted."

And Stay Wet!

Scott Fellman

Tannin Aquatics

[Soothing Shrimp]

Excellent info!  And very useful for us shrimpers as well. 

 

Please post the ph/TDS next time you try.  I'd love to see the results!

[Tannin Aquatics]

Definitely will!

 

I wanted to kick myself afterwards for the incredibly vapid nature of the experiment, but it was really designed to simply address one component of the use of these materials (aesthetics, which a lot of customers use as a decision-making issue)...and I think the visuals speak for themselves. Next time, I'll start with RO water of known characteristics, and then record pH, DkH, and perhaps TDS.

 

Curious, though about TDS...and forgive my ignorance- I just want to have a better understanding of the implications of this for shrimp care so that I can "speak the language" and be on the same page with fellow shrimp keepers:

 

I hear TDS discussed a lot on shrimp forums, and I'm curious about the context. On the reef keeping side of things, we are concerned with TDS as a measure of "stuff" dissolved in our source water (i.e.; out of the tap or RO unit, before we mix salt); we tend to use it as an indicator that it's time to change our RO membranes to create higher quality source water. We are typically more focused on specific stuff dissolved in the water, like phosphates, nitrate, ph, DkH, etc. Is the thinking that TDS is indicative of sourcewater quality? (like 150 or below being best, etc.), or are we talking about the quality of water in our systems themselves?

 

I know that shrimp tend to be sensitive to certain impurities. I'm wondering about the use of TDS, because it doesn't really address the specifics of WHAT is dissolved in the water, just that stuff is IN the water, right? Is it more of a "yardstick" to tell us, "Hey, check your water out?"  My rudimentary  understanding from high school chemistry is that TDS is a measure of all organic and inorganic substances molecular, micro granular, or other forms present in liquids...I don't think that TDS is considered by scientists to be a "primary pollutant", just an indication of a broad array of chemical substances contained in a liquid- good or bad-although I realize that in aquaculture, TDS is used as a measure to compare a captive environment to a wild one where the subject animals hail from..is that kind of where we are going with TDS?  

 

I'm thinking that tannins dissolved into the water would definitely add to the TDS count; curious if this in and of itself is a negative, or merely good to know? Ph, DkH, I get, of course. 

 

Again, forgive my ignorance. I love these kinds of constructive conversations, and want to refine my "experiments" to be more useful to shrimp keepers, so having an understanding can help!

 

Thanks!

 

Scott 

 

Thanks!

 

Scott

[Soothing Shrimp]

Others on this forum are smarter than I with scientific knowledge, however one of the best materials I've found explaining TDS and freshwater is from http://shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/articles/shrimp-care/water-parameters/tds-and-why-is-it-important-r52/

 

"A general observation of high TDS water is that it is slightly alkaline in pH, that is it is lacking in hydrogen molecules. As with everything in nature that tries to reach equilibrium, high TDS or alkaline water will want to seek out hydrogen molecules to reach a neutral state. As such, slightly alkaline water often causes dehydration at a cellular level.

 

Low TDS water on the other hand is loaded with positively charged hydrogen molecules and is therefore slightly acidic in pH. Low TDS water is therefore very hydrating at a cellular level."

 

In layman's terms, the cells of your shrimp are able to withstand swelling or shrinking to a certain extent.  The type of shrimp will have its own params it can handle before illness or death may occur.

 

[Tannin Aquatics]

15 minutes ago, Soothing Shrimp said:

Others on this forum are smarter than I with scientific knowledge, however one of the best materials I've found explaining TDS and freshwater is from http://shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/articles/shrimp-care/water-parameters/tds-and-why-is-it-important-r52/

 

"A general observation of high TDS water is that it is slightly alkaline in pH, that is it is lacking in hydrogen molecules. As with everything in nature that tries to reach equilibrium, high TDS or alkaline water will want to seek out hydrogen molecules to reach a neutral state. As such, slightly alkaline water often causes dehydration at a cellular level.

 

Low TDS water on the other hand is loaded with positively charged hydrogen molecules and is therefore slightly acidic in pH. Low TDS water is therefore very hydrating at a cellular level."

 

In layman's terms, the cells of your shrimp are able to withstand swelling or shrinking to a certain extent.  The type of shrimp will have its own params it can handle before illness or death may occur.

 

Thanks for sharing this! 

 

LOL, It sounds pretty scientific, but I think it just sort of said something to the effect that highly alkaline water tends to make shrimp tissues "shrink" a bit, and lower ph makes their tissues expand..and that every shrimp has its own level of tolerances for such things? I guess the concept is simple enough...and, if I'm interpreting it correctly (a big "if") the author implies that lower TDS water is typically associated with neutral to acidic pH, which seems to create more "hydrated" tissues...and I suppose that's why neutral to acidic pH is the way to go. So the presence of a lot of TDS, for our purposes, would be indicative of a potentially more alkaline condition, which means dehydration of shrimp tissues= stress? Makes sense I think...But I wonder about tannins, which may contribute to TDS, yet I believe are typically acidic..so perhaps the TDS measure is more useful for raw source water...? Wouldn't just checking the pH and alkalinity be a more useful approach in daily applications...Or am I missing this...Like  I said once before, I tend to be confused easily!

 

I remember now why I always got B's and C's in chemistry! 

 

Scott

[Wygglz]

Just to add to the mess Scott,  neos are often kept in basic water with higher ph. 

[Tannin Aquatics]

1 hour ago, Wygglz said:

Just to add to the mess Scott,  neos are often kept in basic water with higher ph. 

Yes, you're right...And it's funny,  I was thinking about that when I posed my question, and thought, "nah. that would be confusing" LOL...But you know what? This is really cool stuff and it's fun to talk about it! Thanks for sharing!

 

-Scott