Shrimple shrimping

[DETAquarium]

Water parameters look spot on, have you performed a water change recently, added any supplements? Sometimes you can do everything right and still have a failure to molt, or just a sudden death; believe or not it happens to all of us. 

 

It does sound to me though, a failue to molt has occurred. Hope we can help!

[Shrimple minded]

Hi DETA, thanks for responding.  Previous water change was last Wednesday (9 days ago), I haven't yet completed my water change for this week as I went out of town on vacation early.  Water changes (only 12.5% changes on 40 gallons) go well and I don't anticipate this being related.  I see molts so molting seems to be going well for most.

 

The only supplements I've added were a 1/4 dose of BetaGlucan on Wednesday evening, and SL Aqua plant ferts (1/2 dose) this morning, after the episode.  I have SL Aqua TM-1 (trace) but have only used a 1/4 dose once, several weeks ago.  I wouldn't think lack of trace minerals would be in an issue as the tank was set up using Old Sea Mud (Mosura), but I don't know much about this subject so that is a question as well.

 

I don't see a corpse this morning, so maybe he lived, but then again he could have found a comfy hiding spot to attempt to regain energy or die.

 

When your CRS, CBS molt, how do they look immediately afterward?  Do they have "full" coloration, or can the white be translucent enough that the shrimp seems pink?  Does the black ever take time to fill back in?

 

This is a pretty rough picture of said shrimp during the episode, sorry for poor quality but I think it shows the coloration I described.  Difficult to see the pinkish-hue.  Keep in mind this is a Crystal Black Mischling.  I have another picture of other shrimp below the first that shows the "whites" I see on the rest of the shrimp, all pics taken with the same setup.

 

 

 

[kubism]

sometimes, shrimp just dies even though you do everything right. I wouldn't focus so much on the condition of just 1 shrimp. If all the other shrimps are doing just fine, don't worry about it.

[Shrimple minded]

Curiosity got the better of me, I went looking for him (had a good idea where he went down).........found him just where I thought he would be.  I really wanted him out of there because I'm getting concerned about infection, specifically after getting some feedback in the other currently running shrimp infection thread.

 

He looked intact (hoping he hadn't been munched on), and the location was pretty much under a rock that would have been pretty difficult to access.  After closer inspection, he did have one of his antennae intact, but the other seemed to be missing or shorter.

 

I'm going to be doing a LOT of research about infection in Caridina shrimp.......why it occurs, how to limit, how to treat, etc.  I will say that most initial readings point the causation finger at temperature swings or pH swings, both of which I can rule out.  My temp doesn't deviate more than 0.3 degrees F(digital), and my pH is essentially 6.15 (pinpoint) at all times with very little swing.  For now, I'm going to monitor heavily, cull anything in question, and pray that I don't see a recurrence.  

[Trotwood]

Good news is that you have no reoccurring BBA. I treated BBA in the past with a syringe and hydrogen peroxide. I would fill syringe with HP, then squirt directly onto BBA within the aquarium. This always seems to turn the BBA to the pinkish dying off color. Either way, give it time the fissidens will bounce back, just a slow grower.

 

I apologize for back tracking but I came across this post while researching hydrogen peroxide as a solution to BBA. DET, did you do this in a shrimp tank? If so, any adverse affects on the shrimp? Anyone else done this or something similar in a shrimp tank?

[DETAquarium]

Trotwood, I have never used HP in my shrimp tanks. Primarily because if I do have an algae aside from Hair Algae, I really don't mind it. Hair Algae is my nemesis, broke down many shrimp tanks because of it.

[Shrimple minded]

Following up on my post from ~2 weeks ago.......

 

I just returned from a week vacation, after much inspection I've noticed that I've lost another shrimp.  I honestly don't think this is an infection issue as I feel like that is the "easy" answer when there could be something I'm doing or not doing that is having unwanted effects.  From what I've read, infections would mean shrimp dying every 1-2-3 days, which isn't what I'm seeing.  All of the rest of my shrimp look to be acting as normal and doing well.  I've given this a lot of thought, and I have 2 variables that I feel like need to be addressed before I can sleep soundly.

• GH - I'm using SS GH+ and mixing in 5 gallon hedpack (food safe) containers.  As per instructions, I'm using 1 scoop and seeing a GH of 6 and a TDS of just below 120 prior to tank addition.  I'm aging the water for a day after mixing in SS GH+ and using an airstone during the aging process as I figured out early on shrimp don't like unoxygenated water.  My tank is a 40 breeder with a well-sealed glass top, so in my mind I was seeing very little evaporation.  I hardly ever top-off but when I do, I use RO.  I feed very little, using Bacter AE once a week and feeding small sample portions (GG shrimp dinner, MK cheeseburger, MK black diamond) 1-2 times per week.  TDS is currently sitting at 141.  My concern is that over time, due to my lack of top offs and weekly 12.5% water changes, GH is creeping up (even though API shows GH 6, I can't trust its known deviation).  With no notable additives causing TDS rise, I'm wondering if my TDS of 141 is indicative of a GH closer to 7, which is in turn causing failure to molt.  There is now a noticeable lack of molts for having 20+ shrimp and the amount of open space that I keep in this tank.  I'm ordering a Hanna GH testing kit, but from what was posted earlier, the 2 dGH variance between API and Hanna showed that API gave too high a reading and that GH is actually ~2 dGH lower.  I know several experience breeders keep cards in GH 3-4 with much success, so if my lack of molts points in this direction, say the word and I'll start slowly dropping GH.
• Canister filter supply lines - At setup, I used a combination of Eheim "green" tubing and clear "aquarium" tubing purchased from Lowes.  Over time, the clear tubing looked to have more "buildup" compared to the Eheim tubing, but I didn't give it much thought as I assumed it was just my perception.  Now after closer inspection (using a light source to "backlight" the tubing), I can see that the clear tubing has significantly more buildup and now has dark splotches akin to mold in appearance.  I don't see near the same level of buildup or issues with the green Eheim tubing.  I can't find any research online where people give reasoning why clear tubing isn't usable with aquariums, but then again none of these sources are shrimp-specific.  I've already made the decision that I'm swapping out all clear lines for Eheim tubing, but I'd like to know if anyone can speak from experience on what the buildup IS and thoughts on what pollutants this could be adding to my tank.  Additionally, I'd love to hear if anyone has a regular cleaning or replacement schedule for canister filtration tubing.  I'll include photos below.

I'm praying that several of you will chime in with your thoughts and guide me through this challenge.  There of course could be unknown variables that I'm not addressing, but these 2 items jump out at me as being a possible cause of my colony not getting off the ground.  My hands rarely if ever go in the tank, and only after scrubbing with mild soap and excessive rinsing.  Thanks everyone for your time reading and a huge thanks to anyone that is kind enough to spend time responding.

 

 

[EricM]

I'd bring the GH down 6 is high side for crs / tbs.  I shoot for 4. I know others like James are even lower.  Like whats been said earlier dont stress over a single death.  And I never recommend throwing more products at things. 

I go the opposite. I try to limit the things being added so their is more control.  

 

as for the green/clear pipes growing stuff. means nothing. its directly related to the color of the tubing. dont want to see it get black next time. 

 

you are on the right track. try bringing down your GH slowly over a few months. thats where i'd start.

[Shrimple minded]

Hi Eric, thanks a bunch for your input.

 

Knowing the tank volume is 40 gallons, how would you proceed with lowering GH?  My initial thoughts were to complete a 5 gallon water change with straight (matched temp) RO water, but your comment of a "few months" has me wondering.  Should I instead do a series of water changes with GH 4 water, or can I drip in straight RO in small amounts to get GH lower faster?

 

 

Would you change out the tubing now as to avoid future issues, or can this be ignored altogether?  

[JamesHe]

Eric is right, I keep mine at GH3 for all bee shrimps. TDS 110-120ppm.

[JamesHe]

 

Hi Eric, thanks a bunch for your input.

 

Knowing the tank volume is 40 gallons, how would you proceed with lowering GH?  My initial thoughts were to complete a 5 gallon water change with straight (matched temp) RO water, but your comment of a "few months" has me wondering.  Should I instead do a series of water changes with GH 4 water, or can I drip in straight RO in small amounts to get GH lower faster?

 

 

Yes, reduce the GH of new water for water change, 1 degree for a month (4 times). until you use GH3 new water.

 

No rush on this process, just keep the routine weekly water change.

[JamesHe]

BBA is related to too strong light.

 

So I only keep needle leaf fern and pellia (tolerance to extreme low light conidtion) in shrimp tank.

Adding frogbit to block some light works too.

 

I never have BBA issue.

[JamesHe]

Other things regarding dose additives, I only dose not more than half of suggested amount. most of cases even less to 1/10.

 

Less is more. the only problem would be overdose. never have issue with less dose.

[Shrimple minded]

BBA is now under control, I used 2 layers of window screening to lower light intensity.

 

Green flies are also defeated via hockeystick pencilfish.  

 

I really appreciate your input James, specifically because GH and lack of molts is a primary concern.  Thank you.

[JamesHe]

the dark spot on the pipe wall is just bioflim. no harm.

 

My shrimp likes to eat it once I knock some off.

 

Green tube blocks the needed red/blue light for some type of microorganism to grow.

But I still have lots of biofilm on the wall with green Eheim tube.

[Shrimple minded]

Just a quick update.  

 

All seems to be going well, no shrimp deaths in over a month, everyone seems happy and healthy.  After gaining some feedback in my "shrimp feeding" forum post, I've increased the frequency of feeding my shrimp.  I'm now feeding foods 4 days a week and using Bacter AE once on the weekend........there seems to be a noticeable increase in growth and "enthusiasm" when dinner times comes around.  Now that some of the shrimp have started fattening up, it looks to me like I may still have a few females in the bunch (fingers-crossed).

 

It could just be my watching eye, but I would say my molting activity is again consistent.  At this point, my only "issue" is that I have had no berried females to date......I'm patiently waiting and hope to get a surprise some day in the future.  The mischlings/TBs (originally juvies) are ~88 days old in my tank........I would think any day now there would be some serious hanky-panky going on.  

 

All parameters are as before (except for some VERY slow downward pH drift - Controsoil):  pH 5.95, TDS 137, GH 6, KH 0, ammo/NO2/NO3 all at zero, temp is always between 73.0 and 73.2F. 

[Shrimple minded]

Just found a berried momma.

 

Words cannot describe how happy and relieved I am.  

[Shrimple minded]

My mischling momma had her babies on 9/24........right at 31 days after I first noticed her berry.  It's getting close to 2 weeks now (and 8 days since I saw the first shrimplet) and the babies I see appear to be doing well.  It looks like I've gotten a full mix......I see golden, what appear to be both CRS and CBS, at least 2-3 blue bolts, and 1 confirmed panda.  The delivering mother didn't immediately re-berry, but I've got my fingers crossed that she or one of the other big girls will gift me more grandchildren.  I have some extreme BBs, king kongs, and 2 zebra pintos ordered and shipping soon (and going into this tank), so I'm now trying to figure out a plan for what to do with the mischlings when they arrive.  At present, the leading idea is to set up another 10g tank (with seeded filter and Controsoil) and use some of the male mischlings as "testers", then eventually move the remainder of the mischlings over.

 

My fissidens continues to be a struggle, I simply can't get the stuff to thrive in any of my basement rack tanks.  I have several pieces that I moved directly into the outflow path from my canister filter, they seem to be doing OK (with limited growth) but still remain far from great.  What boggles my mind even more is that I have three pieces of mini-fissidens that are doing well.  I plan to move some of the fontanus into my upstairs planted tank, which seems to grow out everything lush and green.  Mini-pellia is king, the stuff is so beautiful and I love the way the undergrowth remains healthy even when the pieces get sizable.

 

I'll take this opportunity to reiterate that my mischlings are from forum member Shrimpscales, and I would highly recommend anyone interested in mischlings to keep him in mind.  A+++ 

 

[DETAquarium]

Congratulations! I never did really well with Fissidens, they more or less just gathered detritus, plant matter, etc and never thrived. I moved away from Fissidens and now exclusively use Mini Pellia and Buce. The Mini Pellia I really could not be more happy with, what a great plant for our shrimp tanks!

[Buu]

Do those lava rocks mess with water parameters?

[Shrimple minded]

Do those lava rocks mess with water parameters?

 

Not at all.  Several forum members use the smaller lava rocks (the kind you find at big-box hardware stores) as base for mosses.  

 

Before I added them, I checked with MIA forum member "Metageologist", who replied the following:

 

"Yes for the most part igneous rocks are inert and are fine for aquatic applications. This can be true for metamorphic rocks as well provided you avoid rocks that include crystals or inclusions. The problems you can run into with metamorphic rocks is that they can include metals most are insoluble but some are soluble. These soluble ones are associated with sulphate minerals and would basically like dropping a bomb in your tank. But like I said you probably won't encounter these rocks at any store. "

[Buu]

Not at all. Several forum members use the smaller lava rocks (the kind you find at big-box hardware stores) as base for mosses.

Before I added them, I checked with MIA forum member "Metageologist", who replied the following:

"Yes for the most part igneous rocks are inert and are fine for aquatic applications. This can be true for metamorphic rocks as well provided you avoid rocks that include crystals or inclusions. The problems you can run into with metamorphic rocks is that they can include metals most are insoluble but some are soluble. These soluble ones are associated with sulphate minerals and would basically like dropping a bomb in your tank. But like I said you probably won't encounter these rocks at any store. "

Thanks! I really love how black lava rock look in aquariums specially once parts of them are covered in moss.

[Shrimple minded]

Agreed, I was hoping that using a piece of black lava rock my fissidens would fair better than on stainless steel mesh, but like the others, it isn't doing great.  I simply can't win with fissidens fontanus, and it the one species I want to do well with the most.

[Buu]

Agreed, I was hoping that using a piece of black lava rock my fissidens would fair better than on stainless steel mesh, but like the others, it isn't doing great. I simply can't win with fissidens fontanus, and it the one species I want to do well with the most.

Yeah fissiden has been a problem for me too.. It collects a lot of dirt and browns easily, But I found out recently that it does a lot better in high flow areas on my planted tank.

[Shrimp Life]

Nice setup Shrimple Minded! Hows everything going in this tank?