TheGardenofEder Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I got a friend who has a crs tank. He's had them for over a year and started with just ten. He now has over 100 and they are all crs no cbs or snow whites. Are these considered prl or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETAquarium Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 How many generations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGardenofEder Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Only two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETAquarium Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I wouldn't call them PRL just yet. I know many that wait 6-7 generations before obtaining this "Title". Even though they have not thrown a Snow White, Golden, Etc. doesn't mean that its not a recessive gene that could come out in later generations. GreenPepper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHe Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I got a friend who has a crs tank. He's had them for over a year and started with just ten. He now has over 100 and they are all crs no cbs or snow whites. Are these considered prl or what? No. you need knew the blood line from beginning back all the generations that never mix with CBS/Golden. Then you can claim it as Pure Red Line. for example, you can mix two PRL to breed new PRL. In other words, you can't gain PRL title from no where. It has to be pure from beginning, and acquire PRL from reliable source. I have a colony running for 6 years, never produce any golden/CBS. but I won't call it PRL. Shrimpmaster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Yeah dude, here's where it gets very murky. PRL means different things to different people. Big breeders even argue what the real meaning of prl is. Deta and James both gave great definitions from different philosophies. I've seen some very heated arguments between shrimpers over what "true" prl is. JamesHe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETAquarium Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 That is not entirely true. I know many top PRL breeders in the world that at one point introduced snow whites to obtain better quality white. Then spent the next couple of years building upon the white and worked on receding these genes entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHe Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 That is not entirely true. I know many top PRL breeders in the world that at one point introduced snow whites to obtain better quality white. Then spent the next couple of years building upon the white and worked on receding these genes entirely. I won't buy any so-called PRL from these breeders. All the top Taiwan PRL breeders I knew got theirs from few top Japanese PRL breeders (Nishiki, Hakata, Ebi-ten, MFF, Crimson), and selective breeding to archive thick sell, solid white. deep red. they don't mix any snow white/CBS/Golden. That's what Pure Red Line really are. People has wrong impression that top breeder has one or couple line of mixed CRS, it doesn't mean they don't have seperate PRL. I have couple different lines by myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dendrobatez Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I like Silane's way to determine if they have the golden/white gene or not http://www.silaneshrimp.com/ High5's 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 See what I mean? JamesHe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETAquarium Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I will agree to disagree. I will agree on your definition of PRL as thats what it should be. BUT I do disagree with "All the Taiwan PRL breed got their from few Japanese PRL breeder, and selective breeding to archive thick sell, solid white. deep red. they don't mix any snow white/CBS/Golden" as I know first hand that is not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHe Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I like Silane's way to determine if they have the golden/white gene or not http://www.silaneshrimp.com/ It's good test, but I don't believe this would cover all the corners. In other words. if it produce golden offspring, yes, it's not PRL. but if it doesn't, still it's not 100% PRL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETAquarium Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Fortunately I got my PRL directly from MK Pao himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHe Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Fortunately I got my PRL directly from MK Pao himself. PRL means nothing. PRL + reputed breeder means a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETAquarium Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 PRL means nothing. PRL + reputed breeder means a lot. I can say I feel 100% confident when you do purchase from reputable breeders. The problem after purchasing from reputable breeders is ensuring people don't continue selling their offspring as Ellen Wang PRL, MK-Breed PRL, etc. JamesHe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHe Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I can say I feel 100% confident when you do purchase from reputable breeders. The problem after purchasing from reputable breeders is ensuring people don't continue selling their offspring as Ellen Wang PRL, MK-Breed PRL, etc. Agreed, you can only call it offspring of 'someone's' PRL. Or mix to create new your own PRL, but it's all about reputation. EricM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dendrobatez Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I like those last 2 explanations. My thought when I purchased some Ellen's PRL shrimp was that as soon as I took ownership that the name didn't mean anything anymore because the offspring in my hands will not go through the same hand picked/culling process that the breeder put the them through to get the line where it is today. JamesHe, High5's and EricM 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumo82 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Its nice to know still though what the pedigree is regardless if name means nothing once in your hands. I just bought some Ellens and ebitens and it's nice to tell the pedigree when/if I sell them. It does bring more value than just saying its your own prl because people don't know you; but once they hear or read that they originally came from "this line", there's more interest. It's why most of all you guys bought brand name Prl, no lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHe Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Its nice to know still though what the pedigree is regardless if name means nothing once in your hands. I just bought some Ellens and ebitens and it's nice to tell the pedigree when/if I sell them. It does bring more value than just saying its your own prl because people don't know you; but once they hear or read that they originally came from "this line", there's more interest. It's why most of all you guys bought brand name Prl, no lie. It's perfect fine to mention the source of blood line. It's PRL, it's your own PRL from F1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Its nice to know still though what the pedigree is regardless if name means nothing once in your hands. I just bought some Ellens and ebitens and it's nice to tell the pedigree when/if I sell them. It does bring more value than just saying its your own prl because people don't know you; but once they hear or read that they originally came from "this line", there's more interest. It's why most of all you guys bought brand name Prl, no lie. I was under the impression that Ebiten had closed up shop, good to hear they're still around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Yep. This is my F1 generation from my recently bought PRL Wang line. etc. It's perfect fine to mention the source of blood line. It's PRL, it's your own PRL from F1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGardenofEder Posted May 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 Ok so I'm brining this back up now. Those of you who have crs how many of the babies are normally golden or cbs? I took the tank from my budie and have move them into separate tanks and am trying to selective breed for nicer coloration. Well there is well over 200 now ive had a female give birth and every last shrimp is a crs. What is the normal ratio? Can I send these to a lab to get them teated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 I'm not aware of any lab that test for prl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R. Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 The problem is that we don't have enough genetic information to perform a lab test. It would be tough for scientists to figure out what gene(s) would define a CRS for not qualifying as a PRL. You would probably have to completely sequence many different CRS (including PRL) strains, carefully compare the genomes, then sequence candidate genes from many more shrimps and more. Only then, a genetic test could be established. This would still cost a couple of hundreds $ or more. After all, the definition of PRL is a phenotypic not genotypic. If you want to have PRL it would be probably best to buy the shrimps from an established line. It would take a lot of time and would be very costly to establish what the genetic difference is. Theoretically it could be done. I am sure that we will get the full genomes of some shrimps in the next two decades, but as of now, unfortunately, not too much work has been done in this direction. The best progress has been made on economically important species such as the Pacific white shrimp (Litopenaeus vannamei). It is a pity that the genetics of shrimps are understudied because I am convinced that shrimps could make excellent models for studying evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 A while back, I did find a place that would sequence: http://www.acgtinc.com/specialty-services/species-identification/seafood-species-identification/ Part of an email they sent me: "Our standard testing method can reliably determine the genus and species of shrimp, assuming that that information is in the public databases such as GenBank, EBML or BOLD. We would need one shrimp, and the cost would be $100." /species-identification/seafood-species-identification/ No advancement on genetics of color though. JamesHe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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