svetilda Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 OK, it was my first time. I sent 21 shrimp and only 5 made it to the buyer. He sent me pictures (offered to send me a video but I don't want to watch that sadness. The pictures were enough to feel bad.) I refunded right away. So, here's no problem between my buyer and I but I want to know what I did wrong. Around 3pm Monday I cought the shrimp and divided them in 2 groups (10 and 11). Around 3:30pm I started to pack them. I used LongLife bags. Added some moss, purigen, tied the bags, rubberbanded them. Wrapped the bags in paper towels and doubled bag, again tying a knot and using rubberband. (There was not a leakage during the trip.) Then I wrapped each bag in newspaper and put them in a styrofoam insulation box. Added wrapped in a paper towel heatpack. (My heatpacks are old and I opened one before I sent the shrimp. It was warm for almost 3 days but not hot.) Closed the styrofoam box and taped it. Then I wrapped the insulation box in an insulation bubble foil (Petsmart use it for their shipments). Put whole thing in a box, marked perishable, keep this side up. Dropped it at a post office around 5:30 pm. Today in the morning the box was delivered. As I said they came dead... :-( But when my buyer took the dead shrimp from the bags, they were falling apart. Why is that? I understand, if they got too hot, they would be hard and at least pink. If they got gold they wouldn't fall apart either. Can someone tell me what happened? What did I do wrong? It seems like they died as soon as I packed them and stayed there all the way dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMG Aquatics Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 You shouldn't have double bagged as the purpose of the breather bag is for O2 to enter and CO2 to exit. Double bagging will cause issues. A lot of things can go wrong when using heat pack. For instance, if the package is on truck for delivery or with letter carrier, how sunny the day was, how long package was left at front door, etc. There's too much possible causes. I bought a thermometer from Petco and UPS left it under my door mat. It was 50-60F that day and when got the package an hour later, thermometer was reading around 100F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 It could have been the heat pack but most likely double bagging and wrapping with paper towels might have slowed down the gaseous exchange process and they suffocated. From where did you send it from and where did you send it to. Late last fall I had shrimp from mayphly sent to me but he didnt use heat packs even though I was is the low 40's high 30's because he was in the high 80's. Would have cooked the shrimp before they left CA. I have had shrimp arrive with the water being in the high 50's low 60's and they did just fine. Had some delivered last week and the water was 57 degrees no loss and they are doing great. Svetilda this is not directed towards you because you are new to shipping but it amazes me that even experienced sellers will double bag using breather bags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svetilda Posted March 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Thank you! Honestly I didn't want to send the shrimp with a heat pack. But I sent them to Minnesota and temperature there is between 20 and 30 F (at least weather.com shows me this). I felt like the insulation box will keep the warm temperature and the heatpack wasn't hot at all. Because it seems like the shrimp were dead for some time it looks like you guys are right. The problem comes from double bagging. Poor shrimp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Although I don't double bag myself, I disagree that was the problem. Kordon has stated double bagging is fine as long as paper is used between them. It is only dangerous when bag to bag contact is made. In my opinion the heat pack got too hot because the paper towel let through more air than newspaper would. More air = more chem rx = hotter. But, that's the beauty of a forum. You get all kinds of opinions to choose from. Mr. F 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Although I don't double bag myself, I disagree that was the problem. Kordon has stated double bagging is fine as long as paper is used between them. It is only dangerous when bag to bag contact is made. In my opinion the heat pack got too hot because the paper towel let through more air than newspaper would. More air = more chem rx = hotter. But, that's the beauty of a forum. You get all kinds of opinions to choose grom. ok, did she put paper between the bags? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 She said she did above. Vpier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Thank you! Honestly I didn't want to send the shrimp with a heat pack. But I sent them to Minnesota and temperature there is between 20 and 30 F (at least weather.com shows me this). I felt like the insulation box will keep the warm temperature and the heatpack wasn't hot at all. Because it seems like the shrimp were dead for some time it looks like you guys are right. The problem comes from double bagging. Poor shrimp... Im In MN and had shrimp from FL sent to me last week with same temps. The only issue is having the shrimp sit in the mailbox to long time if your not home. When its in the minus temps thats whole different animal and wont even risk it even with heat packs Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 ÷1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 It may have also been usps at fault. Some sellers won't even give a guarantee with priority because of that. But I've had few problems with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Maybe it was a combination of multiple things that went wrong. Soothing Shrimp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Could be. Try as we might, we can't control all factors. Vpier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svetilda Posted March 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Yes, I did used a paper towel between the bags... Only because I read that you can do it. But it doesn't matter now... I was afraid to ship them and tried to do my best... Now I'm not going to ship for a long time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Yes, I did used a paper towel between the bags... Only because I read that you can do it. But it doesn't matter now... I was afraid to ship them and tried to do my best... Now I'm not going to ship for a long time... Dont be too hard on yourself, it was your first time. Years ago I made a mistake in shipping some African Cichilds and they died during shipping, $3800.00 worth. I learned after that 1st mistake and over the next 15 years I rarely experienced DOA. Soothing Shrimp and svetilda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Agreed. There's a learning curve. svetilda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyana Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Yes, I did used a paper towel between the bags... Only because I read that you can do it. But it doesn't matter now... I was afraid to ship them and tried to do my best... Now I'm not going to ship for a long time... Is using a paper towel ok? Or is it supposed to be something like newspaper? I'm not sure as I've only sent shrimp with a single bag, I've never gotten them with a double bag either so dont know it could be done. Also whenever I've gotten heat packs in the mail they was always a lot of insulation between them and the bag. Not sure how much padding you had between the two? Obviously not an expert but thought I would add my two cents. svetilda and Soothing Shrimp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Is using a paper towel ok? Or is it supposed to be something like newspaper? I'm not sure as I've only sent shrimp with a single bag, I've never gotten them with a double bag either so dont know it could be done. Also whenever I've gotten heat packs in the mail they was always a lot of insulation between them and the bag. Not sure how much padding you had between the two? Obviously not an expert but thought I would add my two cents. My shipment last week to MN from FL did not have a pack. I have never shipped shrimp but have shipped fish and lizards and I try to have as much space and insulation in between pack and animal and tape the pack to the bottom of the Styrofoam lid that is inside the box.. I use the smallest heat pack possible. Most shrimps and reptiles do much better at lower temps than higher temps. Higher temps kill, lower temps will slow down the shrimp with little harm. They actually do better due to slowing down metabolic rate resulting in less ammonia build up, also will slow down respiratory system decreasing CO2. svetilda, Lyana and Soothing Shrimp 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zodiac Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 i only been shipping shrimp a few months. one of the first ones the bag burst. had a good idea on why,you learn from it and move on. replacement and all others arrived safe. i put half sheet of newspaper between the wrapped bag and heat pack. svetilda and Soothing Shrimp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Question for you all since I don't ship at all - what kind of heat packs are you using? Are they the ones that react with oxygen? If so, wouldn't that reduce available O2 for the shrimp if you're using breather bags? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wygglz Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 I was as nervous as you. So much so that I asked someone if I could send them some for free just so they could tell me privately if I got it right or not. You might want to see if you could do that with someone who is experienced so you can analyze from both ends. It really helped to hear both the good and the bad without anger or judgement, just helpfulness. Soothing Shrimp, Nuthatch, Mr. F and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Question for you all since I don't ship at all - what kind of heat packs are you using? Are they the ones that react with oxygen? If so, wouldn't that reduce available O2 for the shrimp if you're using breather bags? Yes but no since enough O2 is being exchanged in the box. If it was air tight then it would be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 I did that too when starting, Wygglz. Wygglz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svetilda Posted March 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Before I sent the shrimp I packed the same boxes (styrofoam and mail box) with 2 bags filled with only water. Packed it as it was going to be shipped nd gave it to my son. I told him he can drop it and roll it. As soon as he dropped the box one of the bags burst... This is how I've decided to double bag. one of the first ones the bag burst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wygglz Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 I double bag as well -same reason. But then I learned that the bags need to be mushy. Basically, I fill them, then try to keep them as loose as possible without any air gaps, then band them. Still double bag, but as far as I know, no more leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpier Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Before I sent the shrimp I packed the same boxes (styrofoam and mail box) with 2 bags filled with only water. Packed it as it was going to be shipped nd gave it to my son. I told him he can drop it and roll it. As soon as he dropped the box one of the bags burst... This is how I've decided to double bag. Sometimes you can do everything perfect and bad things still happen. Once it leaves your hands the package is at the mercy of the shipper. svetilda and Soothing Shrimp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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