Doc4PC2 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Hypothetical question? What if you were to take the substrate and put it in a large media bag and put it on the bottom of a tank, and then put a large stainless steel mesh of moss on top it? Then when you wanted to clean it, you could just take the bag of substrate out, rinse it in aquarium water and put it back in? I am just trying to think of a way to make it easy to clean the substrate and a tank versus vacuuming the substrate which is a pain and you can never really get it clean or be able to clean the sides of glass inside. I'm talking about a large media bag, say 20" X 10" for like a 10 gallon tank. It would still fill the bottom of the tank, and then put whatever on top. Drift wood, moss sheets, etc. Keep it really simple. Then pull it to clean it. This way the whole tank can be cleaned easier and put back together. If you use aquarium water to rinse the bag of substrate, then it should be okay and not kill all of the good bacteria? just rinse the gunk out. You could still use a little colony when you put it back in the tank after cleaning. ATM's Colony does not raise the TDS. What do you thing? This would not necessarily be for shrimp. It could be for fish too. SurraGync 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 In theory it would work great. I think in actuality it may be problematic. Shrimp move where you don't want them to. So I can totally see babies growing in the media bag, shrimp getting underneath the bag or SS when trying to put it back in, etc. Now, if you were to put the substrate inside a sump, and have a bare bottom tank, it may be effective. (?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OblongShrimp Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Why would you have substrate at all then? Seems like you just want to go bare bottom with maybe some moss. You can get the surface area but just using sponge filters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'm guessing because the substrate would bring down the ph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc4PC2 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Yes, that is what I was thinking, is the ph issue. With just bare bottom with some moss and then some sponges for bacteria, I would think it would be hard to keep the ph steady. I was thinking about this more for fish than shrimp though. But I would love to come up with something that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and a way to keep a tank clean, or easier to keep clean. I suppose using RO water and salty shrimp mineral. If I put a sponge filter on the bottom that covered the whole bottom and then put moss on top of it, but the sponge would have to be so that you don't have the same problem with shrimp getting down the sides of the sponge, etc. It couldn't be very porous. If I put a large sponge on the side with a bare bottom, and used RO Water and Salty shrimp minerals, I wonder if I could keep the ph steady? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddles Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 I haven't vacuumed a shrimp tank in years. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Puddles be ware the old tank syndrome. 0-0 baa baa baaaaaaaaaaaaa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrimpo Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Puddles be ware the old tank syndrome. 0-0 baa baa baaaaaaaaaaaaa Add me to the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryboy12484 Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Thats why I keep trumpet snails. .. let them do the work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Yes, that is what I was thinking, is the ph issue. With just bare bottom with some moss and then some sponges for bacteria, I would think it would be hard to keep the ph steady. I was thinking about this more for fish than shrimp though. But I would love to come up with something that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and a way to keep a tank clean, or easier to keep clean. I suppose using RO water and salty shrimp mineral. If I put a sponge filter on the bottom that covered the whole bottom and then put moss on top of it, but the sponge would have to be so that you don't have the same problem with shrimp getting down the sides of the sponge, etc. It couldn't be very porous. If I put a large sponge on the side with a bare bottom, and used RO Water and Salty shrimp minerals, I wonder if I could keep the ph steady? Like a HMF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibikaie Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Go HMF and set bags of substrate behind the foam sponge. No reason it shouldn't work. Like a sump without the plumbing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddles Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Puddles be ware the old tank syndrome. 0-0 baa baa baaaaaaaaaaaaa Well I also change substrate about every year too. I don't have super old tanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc4PC2 Posted July 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Yeah, that is a good idea, I could keep it simple, go HMF with just air and put the substrate behind the HMF and put it on the side and make the bottom bare. Or I could put the substrate in the media bag still, and put the HMF on top of it. I might need to put some easy water flow under the sponge, and air. Or the heck with it, I could just put in a couple bags of bio balls under the HMF. The idea is to keep it simple, and a piece of cake to clean anytime. Yet, still have the bacteria. I could go bare bottom and large porus rock and sponge filters, maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Thats why I keep trumpet snails. .. let them do the work You are smart my man, not many people are aware of old tank syndrome. New tank syndrome everyone is aware of. Old tank syndrome will come out of no where and bite you in the arsenal. Usually it's caused by not doing deep gravel vacuums, unclean filters, or irregular maintnance for years. I haven't cleaned my substrate in my shrimp tank since I started it. I'm waiting for them to stop breeding t During winter, the. I'm going to sell off who I don't think will be good for next years breeding, then take them out, completely redo the tank somewhat like bostoneric, and actually get a new ten gallon, the one I have is old, like 15 years old and when I fill it to the rim maybe a centimeter lower it leaks maybe a quarter cup of water out. Jsut be ware it's better to have trumpet snails Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungle64 Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 IMHO........HMF you don't want to put substrate behind it. That to allow water circulate much better. Also without substrate then you have to increase bio media. Have you look into how the breeder in Asia do their tanks ? Partition the tank in half where the half on the back with substrate and half on the front is bare where as easy to clean the left over food and others unwanted things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 I've tried looking for different photos to get ideas for my tank redo but there aren't any on google Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungle64 Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 I've tried looking for different photos to get ideas for my tank redo but there aren't any on google Are you talking about Asia' breeder tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbarbee54 Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Run a sump and keep the substrate in there.... I have tanks going on 3 years still buffering into the 5's in ph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnemenoi Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 What about running it bare bottom, adding a small cheap canister, toss the media, and replace with akadama or eheim peat pellets. Throw in some purigen to clean tannins, fine filter floss and control the flow. Should be stable and not swing, especially after the initial peat introduction. You could always even run it on a bucket for a month or two until it gets stable. Guess even a HOB like an aquaclear would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Are you talking about Asia' breeder tank? yes. The only good inspiration I have is from bostonsric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbarbee54 Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Bostoneric stole it from Randyl in canada. He does all his tank like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtletanks91 Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Who is Randal? I like the idea a lot. I think I'm going to modify it though a bit and do three edges. Both sides and the back since the tank is a rectangle, and the have a small rectangle in the middle. It'll require me to get a new air pump, and use my hob for one ugf port, and the air pump for the other three as well as a sponge filter. Give me enough room for my Buce collection, and my moss collection, which is ever so growing slowly haha, just recieved fissidens Thailand, some more rare erio seeds today and a mother rare moss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soothing Shrimp Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Randyl is based from Canada, and is a pretty good guy from my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc4PC2 Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 What if you were to just put in a glass jar filled with substrate? You could just fill it and put in the tank, maybe run an air stone in it, them just take it out and rinse it in aquarium water every now and them and put it back in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungle64 Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 What if you were to just put in a glass jar filled with substrate? You could just fill it and put in the tank, maybe run an air stone in it, them just take it out and rinse it in aquarium water every now and them and put it back in? That could work. How about with some fine filter ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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