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Snows vs Bolts :)


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Multiple times in the past week this conversation has been brought up again.  Snows vs Bolts. :)

 

One camp suggests that Bolts are actually goldens/snows with better color coverage.  Some snows present colored cheeks.  Often bluish, sometimes reddish. 

 

Blue bolts present the color over their body.  Sometimes just the head is covered, but on better ones the body is covered as well.

 

Another camp says Bolts are a total separate creation.

 

It is interesting to note this conversation has often been a friendly debate, and not the all out brawl that some other conversations have fallen into. 

 

I think that may be because whatever is agreed upon in this instance won't affect the attraction or price to either one.

 

All I could find for blue cheeked snow as an example on the net was this one:

post-2-0-59339000-1445261053.jpg

 

Does anyone have any photos of blue cheeked or red cheeked snows?  This may help others understand this friendly debate better.

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I know your very familiar with the chart below, but as we are all aware TBs in general came from mutations of Crystal Red/Black shrimp. All Taiwan Bees, Crystal Red/Black, Golden, etc. are Caridina Cantonensis  var. or sp. I would think that Blue Bolts and Red Bolts as shown in the diagram are mutations of Snow White and/or Golden Shrimp. When someone noticed the red/blue pigments on their Snow White or Golden, they selectively bred them to exploit the red/blue genes.

 

This is just my opinion purely speculation.

 

post-127-0-00839000-1445261522_thumb.jpg

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I also want to add that I have a "Blue Bolt" pictured below that I have tried to increase the blue coverage, it has increase slightly since the time of this picture, but still far from 95% of my blue bolts.

 

post-127-0-55040800-1445261794_thumb.jpg

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I would be inclined to agree with that. :)

 

---

 

On the flipside, there are some that argue BB/RB are actually a variation of TB directly.  The better than average white coverage, and better blue/red is their reasoning.  Much like a Royal White (except spontaneous thrown, of course like any other TB.)

 

If there were more than one type of phenotype that looked the same (as in blue neos), I may be able to agree with that- however how many phenotypes really look the same so far in caridina? ;)

 

well....you do have those TB that look like the avg pattern of cards, with the exception of the colored face, I guess...and I have seen lower grades of TB...

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It is definitely hard to tell for sure the family tree of some shrimp. I did notice the shrimp I posted has quite a bit more dense shell than the pictures you posted above. Taiwan Bees typically have a better quality, and more opaque shell and carapace.

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I got these shrimps and was always curious about them if they were red bolts or not. Got these shrimps from Sean L. And from what he said he breed these from his colony of blue and red tb without adding any SW/golden. Just showed up after breeding them for a long time. Some with the red ears and some that looks just like SW/golden.

post-2551-0-82111700-1445268878_thumb.jp

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I thought there are three type of snows.

 

Snow from CRS/CBS

 

Snow from BKK - BB alike.

Snow from Wine Red -  RB alike

 

the Later two won't make any mischlings, but TB only.

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Good thread! I have a few that I've been wondering about, they look just like the first picture. I'll see if I can get a few pics in the coming days.

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I would think blue bolts are double recessive for TB and snow. I have no idea what red bolts are as they are a bit hard to distinguish from regular snows. I'm inclined to think red bolts are just slightly more colored snows. We'll need more people doing red bolt x red bolt crosses with confirmed red bolts, which may be impossible.

I have seen many snows that have some blue on the cheeks, but it makes sense that the TB gene brings out the color, just like BKK has intensified black compared to CBS.

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I would think blue bolts are double recessive for TB and snow. I have no idea what red bolts are as they are a bit hard to distinguish from regular snows. I'm inclined to think red bolts are just slightly more colored snows. We'll need more people doing red bolt x red bolt crosses with confirmed red bolts, which may be impossible.

I have seen many snows that have some blue on the cheeks, but it makes sense that the TB gene brings out the color, just like BKK has intensified black compared to CBS.

 

Red Bolt is from Wine Red. I have couple in my Wine Red tank now. 

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I will take some photo of Red Bolt from Wine Red and Blue Bolt from BKK when I have chance.

 

It looks totally different.

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Red Bolt is from Wine Red. I have couple in my Wine Red tank now. 

 

That's the problem with "red bolts," if they exist. I have one in my TB/mischling tank that looks very red bolt, but I've seen it being berried, mated by male TB, and carrying mostly regular eggs with some dark eggs, just like my other mischling females (with appearance of CRS, CBS, and snows) do. I was thinking it is just a mischling that is also a snow (homozygous recessive snow and heterozygous for recessive TB) that has more red coloring than most. If real red bolts exist, they are very hard to differentiate from more colored snows.

 

Seeing red bolts from wine reds will definitely help. It'll also help to do red bolt x wine red and red bolt x red bolt crosses.

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