Trouble Completing Cycling

[fernselvis]

Hi Guys,

 

I seem to be having an issue with getting my tanks to finish cycling NO2 to NO3.

I’m using pink danio for cycling and have under gravel and  double sponge filters, JBL Shrimp Soil (left and middle) and ADA Amazonia Soil(right). 

I just added hang on back filters, since im assuming that there wasn’t enough media or surface for bacteria to grow to handle the load, but I’m total confused coz i set it up in Nov and thats long.

 

Any thoughts or suggestion? 

[brocknorman]

Maybe to much waste

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[fernselvis]

Maybe to much waste

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you think so? I do bi weekly 70% water changes, there are max 20 fish in each tank.

[DETAquarium]

Wow, definitely should be done cycling. What water parameters do you currently have?

[zodiac]

you think so? I do bi weekly 70% water changes, there are max 20 fish in each tank.

do daily 50%.

right now do three 50% couple hours apart to drop the nitrites way down.

either you have very high nitrites or not enough media.

[fernselvis]

Wow, definitely should be done cycling. What water parameters do you currently have?

Hi Deta,

 

Love your Taiwan bee video

 

Parameter:

Ph 6.5

TDS 190

NH4 0

NO2 0

NO3 very high ( red on the Api test kit)

[fernselvis]

do daily 50%.

right now do three 50% couple hours apart to drop the nitrites way down.

either you have very high nitrites or not enough media.

 Ok will try that. I thought may be not enough media so I added hang on filter.

Now I have 3 filters (hang on, double sponge, undergravel) in each tank and they are only 64 ltrs. 

I have seen bigger tanks just running on sponge filters

[zodiac]

unless it's a shrimp tank or very under stocked a sponge filter is not enough.

you may be over stocked and you have soil that leaches ammonia.

until it gets cycled you wont know what will handle the load.

it'll take at least 2 weeks for the HOB to get cycled.

you need to knock the nitrites down to zero.

you could have enough bacteria for nitrite,but it could be too much for them to consume.

[fernselvis]

Hi 

 

unless it's a shrimp tank or very under stocked a sponge filter is not enough.

you may be over stocked and you have soil that leaches ammonia.

until it gets cycled you wont know what will handle the load.

it'll take at least 2 weeks for the HOB to get cycled.

you need to knock the nitrites down to zero.

you could have enough bacteria for nitrite,but it could be too much for them to consume.

 

Hi 

 

Thank you for your response. It is suppose to be a shrimp tank but was using Pink danios and tetras to complete the cycling.

Will go water changes and hopefull all works. Will update on my progress soon.

 

Thank you for your help.

[sarah]

Even if we set aside the debate of fish vs fishless cycling, why the need for danios and tetras if you have a substrate that releases ammonia?

[fernselvis]

Even if we set aside the debate of fish vs fishless cycling, why the need for danios and tetras if you have a substrate that releases ammonia?

I would simple say lack of knowledge and wrong advice . I was suggested by a friend whose tanks are doing very well, that this was how he does it and works well. So I'm trying the same.

[Soothing Shrimp]

I'm confused- which is not unusual. LOL

 

If the substrate releases ammonia to cycle the tank...

 

...and fish are used to add ammonia to cycle the tank...

 

....Aren't you just adding ammonia to ammonia for no reason?

 

I mean, ignoring the debate of fish vs fishless cycling, it makes sense for inert substrate, but for ammonia producing substrate?

 

 

I'm so lost!

[fernselvis]

I'm confused- which is not unusual. LOL

If the substrate releases ammonia to cycle the tank...

...and fish are used to add ammonia to cycle the tank...

....Aren't you just adding ammonia to ammonia for no reason?

I mean, ignoring the debate of fish vs fishless cycling, it makes sense for inert substrate, but for ammonia producing substrate?

I'm so lost!

I suppose what you saying makes sense now. I was told more the ammonia fast the cycling. Any ways that clearly didn't happen.

[sarah]

Parameter:

Ph 6.5

TDS 190

NH4 0

NO2 0

NO3 very high ( red on the Api test kit)

 

Are you saying that now your tank has zero ammonia and nitrites (NH4 and NO2), and super high nitrates (NO3)?

If so, then you may be more cycled than you think.

 

Either way, I recommend you get those poor fish out of there. VERY very slowly drip acclimate them to another tank that has normal nitrate levels. Or you could do a series of 20-30% water changes (once a day for a few days) to bring the nitrate level down to <40. Do not do anything quickly, or your fish may go into nitrate shock and die.

 

Once you've done that, re-test all your parameters.

[ibebian]

Hi Deta,

Love your Taiwan bee video

Parameter:

Ph 6.5

TDS 190

NH4 0

NO2 0

NO3 very high ( red on the Api test kit)

According to your params, looks like you are cycled. The bio load and Aquasoil seem to be what is contributing to sky high NO3.

[fernselvis]

Ok guys on it. Will start water changes and move the fish. Can someone help me with fish less cycling for the future.

[sarah]

Good luck! Take it slowly and don't panic

 

We're all learning as we go. Once you get this immediate nitrate issue sorted out, we can post a few clear and thorough links and videos that will talk you through fishless cycling. It's fairly simple with active substrate (more complicated with neutral substrate since you have to add ammonia).

 

As I mentioned above, based on your current parameters I am almost sure your tanks are already cycled. When you get the nitrate down to shrimp-safe levels, move the fish out. Then you can add a tiny bit of pure ammonia (make sure it has no surfactants or fragrances) to bring ammonia up to 2ppm, then test 24 hours later to make sure you have no ammonia or nitrites. Then you can do a water change to lower the nitrates and you're good to go.

[fernselvis]

Good luck! Take it slowly and don't panic

We're all learning as we go. Once you get this immediate nitrate issue sorted out, we can post a few clear and thorough links and videos that will talk you through fishless cycling. It's fairly simple with active substrate (more complicated with neutral substrate since you have to add ammonia).

As I mentioned above, based on your current parameters I am almost sure your tanks are already cycled. When you get the nitrate down to shrimp-safe levels, move the fish out. Then you can add a tiny bit of pure ammonia (make sure it has no surfactants or fragrances) to bring ammonia up to 2ppm, then test 24 hours later to make sure you have no ammonia or nitrites. Then you can do a water change to lower the nitrates and you're good to go.

Ok thank you. How or where do I get pure ammonia.

[ibebian]

Ok thank you. How or where do I get pure ammonia.

Hardware stores near you may have it, just make sure that it doesn't contain anything like Sarah said. I used Dr Tim's ammonia which comes in a much smaller bottle: http://store.drtimsaquatics.com/Ammonium-Chloride-Solution-for-Fishless-Cycling_p_190.html

[fernselvis]

Hi Guys,

I have now moved most of the fish out to other tanks (Kept 2 or 3 to avoid the tank crashing) and done couple of water changes.

Nitrate levels at 10 ppm. Pure ammonia for aquariums is not available here in UAE and other options, whats should I do next?

How do u guys maintain water parameters using re mineralisers i.e. adjusting gh to increase in small amounts 1or 2 dk.

Also added some ram horn snails, but their shells are turning white, I have attached some pictures.

Thank you in advance. While i have 

[Shrimple minded]

Based on all of the previous discussion, it really sounds like your cycle is done, so I think the only need for pure ammonia would be to perform an "ammonia challenge" test, just to ensure that your beneficial bacteria could handle a "given" amount of ammonia within a certain timeframe.  

I'm not really sure how many shrimp you planned on adding, but I would think the waste output of 2-3 fish and 7-8 ramshorns would be equivalent or more than an initial stocking of shrimp.  The parameters look good, my thoughts are a 100% water change, settling period and some re-testing, and you should be ready for shrimp.

The patience you clearly exhibit is well-founded and going to pay off for you in the long run in the shrimping world.  Keep up the good work.

[Soothing Shrimp]

The white shell is etching from the low ph.

[ibebian]

The white shell is etching from the low ph.

Would this be a cause for concern, typically?

[fernselvis]

Based on all of the previous discussion, it really sounds like your cycle is done, so I think the only need for pure ammonia would be to perform an "ammonia challenge" test, just to ensure that your beneficial bacteria could handle a "given" amount of ammonia within a certain timeframe.  

I'm not really sure how many shrimp you planned on adding, but I would think the waste output of 2-3 fish and 7-8 ramshorns would be equivalent or more than an initial stocking of shrimp.  The parameters look good, my thoughts are a 100% water change, settling period and some re-testing, and you should be ready for shrimp.

The patience you clearly exhibit is well-founded and going to pay off for you in the long run in the shrimping world.  Keep up the good work.

Thank you shrimple minded [emoji4].

I will order ammonia will take some time to reach me and do the testing.

I am planning to add external aquel multikani filters to ensure optimum filtration and bio load capacity.

What would u consider initial stocking nos as. I plan to hold as much I can breed in an 64 ltr tank. But for future setups will try to keep the tanks at 100 ltrs and above.

[fernselvis]

The white shell is etching from the low ph.

Thank you soothing shrimp. Ph is at 6.5 but GH is 1 as off now. So I was assuming low Gh and calcium. Haven't added salty shrimp Gh+ yet, still waiting to finalize if I'm cycled before doing a 100% change with ro and remineralizer.