DOA? i don't think so

[Shrimpo]

So after bargaining I agreed to do $30 discount on 8 EBKK and 2 Panda shrimp, shipped them first thing in the morning Monday and arrived today. the buyer said 3 EBKK where dead and sent me some pictures, since there is no dead shrimp in the picture showing all of them attached to do Subwasertang plant, and the picture with 3 shrimp outside the bag showing fresh live shrimp on wet paper towel. regardless I was going to do partial refund but the buyer wants full refund and threatening to request paypal charge back. 

Do you guys see any dead shrimp in these pictures?

[Shrimpo]

I meant to post this in the off topic forum, MODs please move it the right forum, Thanks.

[ShrimpP]

Was that all the pictures given?

How can you tell the ones on the paper towel are dead? (I've never placed live shrimp outside of water so I don't know if they would stand up, I think they would though as I've heard of shrimp crawling around out of tanks)

If just 3 are dead, I don't think Paypal or anyone would force you to refund the whole thing, just the dead ones. If you had no live arrival guarantee, I don't think you'd have to refund any.

[stangmus]

Have them cut the shrimp in half to prove they are dead.

[Shrimpo]

The first picture showing at least 9 live shrimp and 1 behind the subwasertang (looks like standing normally from the shadow) if he said 3 where dead that means 7 are alive (10-3 = 7).

[Shrimpo]

33 minutes ago, ShrimpP said:

Was that all the pictures given?

How can you tell the ones on the paper towel are dead? (I've never placed live shrimp outside of water so I don't know if they would stand up, I think they would though as I've heard of shrimp crawling around out of tanks)

If just 3 are dead, I don't think Paypal or anyone would force you to refund the whole thing, just the dead ones. If you had no live arrival guarantee, I don't think you'd have to refund any.

There is another picture showing only 7 shrimp, he just sent that to paypal asking for full refund, he didn't show them the first picture showing all of them alive.

Here is the picture he showed to paypal.

[Jynn]

Request he mail the "dead" shrimp back to you for the refund?

[Shrimpo]

4 minutes ago, Jynn said:

Request he mail the "dead" shrimp back to you for the refund?

He said he throw them away. there is no dead shrimp as you can see from the first picture, he mistakenly sent me that one and the other showing only 7 shrimp. now he opened a case with paypal asking for full refund.

[shrimpybuisness]

Is there anyway that we could defend you in anyway? Also what is the full amount he paid if you dont mind me asking?

[OMG Aquatics]

Good luck on the dispute!

 

Be sure to respond to the dispute with ONLY valid and useful information.

 

Be sure not to write an essay. Just simple straight to the fact information.

 

Also when buyer emails about DOA and doesn't provide clear picture of them DOA in bag, ask them to pour everything into a container and take a picture. The dead ones will be on their side and clearly visible.

[shrimpybuisness]

Also many sellers (including me) state the DOA must be pictures sent withing 2 hours and Clear photos of them IN THE BAG. and the second one shows them out of the bag. So you could also say (Even though they all look alive) that the refund is Void because he opened the bag

[Jynn]

That sucks.  I definitely don't see any dead shrimp in those pics, and why would he bother to wet the paper towel for the "dead" shrimp, in the out of bag picture?

 

I would make your case to paypal, maybe find some pictures of actual dead shrimp to attach so whoever reviews you case can see that dead shrimp dont cling to plants, and don't keep their color so well.

 

Possibly update the DOA policy on your listings to indicate that you may require pics of shrimp in bag, and the corpses being cut in half or something as proof of DOA to avoid this sort of thing in the future?

[shrimpybuisness]

Just now, Jynn said:

That sucks.  I definitely don't see any dead shrimp in those pics, and why would he bother to wet the paper towel for the "dead" shrimp, in the out of bag picture?

 

I would make your case to paypal, maybe find some pictures of actual dead shrimp to attach so whoever reviews you case can see that dead shrimp dont cling to plants, and don't keep their color so well.

 

Possibly update the DOA policy on your listings to indicate that you may require pics of shrimp in bag, and the corpses being cut in half or something as proof of DOA to avoid this sort of thing in the future?

Great point of the paper towel!

[Shrimpo]

4 minutes ago, shrimpybuisness said:

Is there anyway that we could defend you in anyway? Also what is the full amount he paid if you dont mind me asking?

He paid $150+ free shipping for 8 Extreme BKK and 2 Pandas. we need to create black list of such members with their city/state location so the good people in this community will not go through this again. 

[shrimpybuisness]

Just now, Shrimpo said:

He paid $150+ free shipping for 8 Extreme BKK and 2 Pandas. we need to create black list of such members with their city/state location so other the good people in this community will not go through this again. 

Who was the buyer? 

[Shrimpo]

I am not going to mention it openly now until I talk to the moderators. check your PM.

[Jynn]

You should also definitely show paypal the first pic he sent you (maybe save and attach the email conversation so they know the pic came from him.) that shows all 9 of the living shrimp as well.

[ShrimpP]

The shrimp are dark so to me, it's a bit hard to tell if some of them are upside down, dead, or not (they may just be alive, hanging upside down on the subwassertang).

Did you sell them on here, or is there anyway you can check if the buyer has a history of constantly making refund/dispute claims?
The newest pic of "7" shrimp, might be taken at the same time. To me the "7" that we can see, the subwassertang looks too perfectly aligned/in place as the first picture so I can't say without a doubt that the pic was taken after removing some shrimp, just because we can't see them. Also not sure if the bag looks open (wrinkled/deflated bag, but I also have had wrinkled bags that were not open, guess they just weren't air tight or weren't bagged with enough air pressure)

I personally don't see enough undoubtful/clear evidence to side with either party (to me both parties seem even. can anyone comment if alive shrimp would be standing if placed on a paper towel?).

I'd feel bad if the buyer was telling the truth and is on a loss of some dead shrimp, just the pictures might not be the most believable. However even if the buyer was telling the truth, I would say it's fair to just refund the DOA shrimp (possibly slight amount of shipping), not the whole purchase. The buyer requesting a whole refund without returning all the shrimp is fishy/con-artist-like to me though.

[OMG Aquatics]

10 minutes ago, shrimpybuisness said:

Also many sellers (including me) state the DOA must be pictures sent withing 2 hours and Clear photos of them IN THE BAG. and the second one shows them out of the bag. So you could also say (Even though they all look alive) that the refund is Void because he opened the bag

 

10 minutes ago, Jynn said:

That sucks.  I definitely don't see any dead shrimp in those pics, and why would he bother to wet the paper towel for the "dead" shrimp, in the out of bag picture?

 

I would make your case to paypal, maybe find some pictures of actual dead shrimp to attach so whoever reviews you case can see that dead shrimp dont cling to plants, and don't keep their color so well.

 

Possibly update the DOA policy on your listings to indicate that you may require pics of shrimp in bag, and the corpses being cut in half or something as proof of DOA to avoid this sort of thing in the future?

 

I honestly don't think these 2 hours DOA policies work because despite what your DOA policy states, they are still covered under Paypal's buyer protection.

 

A while ago, I had a buyer who had the package left at their front door for over 6 hours and in freezing temps. All the shrimps arrived DOA. The buyer even admitted he wasn't home for that period and package was left in cold. When the dispute came, regardless of what I stated in my DOA, I lost the dispute because I am fully responsible for ensuring the package arrives safely to the buyer(even when buyer should be at fault).

 

 

[OMG Aquatics]

1 minute ago, ShrimpP said:

The shrimp are dark so to me, it's a bit hard to tell if some of them are upside down, dead, or not (they may just be alive, hanging upside down on the subwassertang).

Did you sell them on here, or is there anyway you can check if the buyer has a history of constantly making refund/dispute claims?
The newest pic of "7" shrimp, might be taken at the same time. To me the "7" that we can see, the subwassertang looks too perfectly aligned/in place as the first picture so I can't say without a doubt that the pic was taken after removing some shrimp, just because we can't see them. Also not sure if the bag looks open (wrinkled/deflated bag, but I also have had wrinkled bags that were not open, guess they just weren't air tight or weren't bagged with enough air pressure)

I personally don't see enough undoubtful/clear evidence to side with either party (to me both parties seem even. can anyone comment if alive shrimp would be standing if placed on a paper towel?).

I'd feel bad if the buyer was telling the truth and is on a loss of some dead shrimp, just the pictures might not be the most believable. However even if the buyer was telling the truth, I would say it's fair to just refund the DOA shrimp (possibly slight amount of shipping), not the whole purchase. The buyer requesting a whole refund without returning all the shrimp is fishy/con-artist-like to me though.

 

Amanos will slowly get up on their legs and walk away.

Neos will mostly just lay on their sides.

[shrimpybuisness]

1 minute ago, OMG Aquatics said:

 

 

I honestly don't think these 2 hours DOA policies work because despite what your DOA policy states, they are still covered under Paypal's buyer protection.

 

A while ago, I had a buyer who had the package left at their front door for over 6 hours and in freezing temps. All the shrimps arrived DOA. The buyer even admitted he wasn't home for that period and package was left in cold. When the dispute came, regardless of what I stated in my DOA, I lost the dispute because I am fully responsible for ensuring the package arrives safely to the buyer(even when buyer should be at fault).

 

 

Dang I Agree the people at PayPal are not familiar with the shrimp hobby so they will probably just side with the fake pictures

[Shrimpo]

9 minutes ago, OMG Aquatics said:

 

9 minutes ago, OMG Aquatics said:

 

Amanos will slowly get up on their legs and walk away.

Neos will mostly just lay on their sides.

 

Shrimp will attach to wet towel and lay on the side.

Just got a message that a good member in this forum got scammed $200 from the same guy.

[Shrimpo]

OK guys after some communications with the other victim it turned out he did the same thing to him and won paypal dispute case $225..( mine still pending).

DO NOT DEAL WITH master503 Portland/ Oregon 97233

[Wygglz]

Perhaps using the feedback option on the members page would be a good idea? I know I try to leave positive feedback for buyers or sellers, but I believe negative feedback is an option.

[Shrimpo]

3 minutes ago, Wygglz said:

Perhaps using the feedback option on the members page would be a good idea? I know I try to leave positive feedback for buyers or sellers, but I believe negative feedback is an option.

Done, and the scam bag is banned from the forum.