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How do German breeders use sand as a substrate?


jimko
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I've seen this in a couple of pictures and video most recently in blue crown pre-sale. Common knowledge is that Taiwan bees and other soft water bee shrimps like the expensive buffering soils. I've tried to keep them with turface or soilmaster select and would not recommend it (x_X). Tiger btoes did well, never got a good bee population going.

Are these growing tanks or thriving colonies? Do they do this just for pictures? Seems they are portraying an image that the shrimp are happy in inert substrate.

The only thing I can think of is they have a huge sump with expensive buffering substrate and its plumbed via central filtration. Still can't see shrimp being happy in a sand tank under these condition, hygiene wise probably say easier to clean tanks with sand. Have they mastered the secrets of water chemistry.

Does any one know how they do it? Can some that knows nadal ask him?

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I just read a thread where some on used inert substrate to keep TBs. They said they're using sera super peat to lower the ph. The thread hasn't been updated in awhile but many in the thread said that using sera has worked for them, one of those members being shrimpy daddy. Gonna have to look into this and maybe setup a tank this method once i get more info.

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Now I don't know for sure but here's my 2 cents.

I don't see why an inert substrate couldn't be done with TBs etc. As far as I know all it's doing is lowering the ph of the tank water. I don't really see it doing anything else.

As long as you can find something else, like peat, to lower ph. I don't see why not. Actually isn't it peat in the gravels that are lowering ph? I feel like the aquasoils would be easier and more consistent though.

-Duffy

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I know several people say not to use fish chemicals to lower ph in water, but does anyone know why?

As someone who deals with those chemicals at work a lot. I would assume because they can increase TDS a lot, quickly, depending on what you're using.

A lot of places (big brand) won't state exactly what's in their product either. Mainly so people can't steal their product/research, but that makes it hard to tell if it's safe for everything.

That's my guess. Currently trying to mess with seachem products and tap water to keep shrimp healthy.

-Duffy

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I've seen this in a couple of pictures and video most recently in blue crown pre-sale. Common knowledge is that Taiwan bees and other soft water bee shrimps like the expensive buffering soils. I've tried to keep them with turface or soilmaster select and would not recommend it (x_X). Tiger btoes did well, never got a good bee population going.

Are these growing tanks or thriving colonies? Do they do this just for pictures? Seems they are portraying an image that the shrimp are happy in inert substrate.

The only thing I can think of is they have a huge sump with expensive buffering substrate and its plumbed via central filtration. Still can't see shrimp being happy in a sand tank under these condition, hygiene wise probably say easier to clean tanks with sand. Have they mastered the secrets of water chemistry.

Does any one know how they do it? Can some that knows nadal ask him?

 

Can't speak about other breeders but with Nadal he has two type of setups; for bee shrimps & TB he keeps them the pH at around 6.5, for tigers around 7.5.

 

The key thing to note with him is that while he has his own breeding tanks and projects, most of his tanks are more or less temporarily holding tanks as he is constantly bringing in shrimps for resale from various breeders across europe and asia.  In his case inert substrates let him change over a tank quickly if he needs to.  Also with with all the crossing of taitibees  etc the "middle ground" approach work for them 

 

I find lots of german breeders also like to do the work to adapt shrimps to using tap water rather than using RO water - maybe it is a german thing but they are pretty good at it! Remember that tiger shrimps in the wild come from soft, acidic water but they been adapted to higher PH by the german as far as blue and black tigers are concern.  I have some B/C grade CRS from german breeders that been raised in high PH and they been doing fine in my tap water (PH ~ 7.8) and just regular gravel.

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I just read a thread where some on used inert substrate to keep TBs. They said they're using sera super peat to lower the ph. The thread hasn't been updated in awhile but many in the thread said that using sera has worked for them, one of those members being shrimpy daddy. Gonna have to look into this and maybe setup a tank this method once i get more info.

I think your talking about shrimp daddy.

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Can't speak about other breeders but with Nadal he has two type of setups; for bee shrimps, bee shrimps TB he keeps them the pH at around 6.5, for tigers around 7.5.

 

The key thing to note with him is that while he has his own breeding tanks and projects, most of his tanks are more or less temporarily holding tanks as he is constantly bring in shrimps for resale from various breeders across europe and asia.  In his case inert substrates let him change over a tank quickly if he needs to.  Also with with all the crossing of taitibees  etc the "middle ground" approach work for them 

 

I find lots of german breeders also like to do the work to adapt shrimps to using tap water rather than use RO water - maybe it is a german thing but they are pretty good at it! Remember that tiger shrimps in the wild come from soft, acidic water but they been adapted to higher PH by the german as far as blue and black tigers are concern.  I have some B/C grade CRS from german breeders that been raised in high PH and they been doing fine in my tap water (PH ~ 7.8) and just regular gravel.

 

Well said.  its doable for sure. as for tap water... they just have better tap water than we do in the USA... But for us hobbyist using buffering substrate is just easier.  they are able to use sand because they are on top of their water 24x7.  

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I have raised TBs in turface with a layer of soft peat moss in between which allowed my PH to drop to 6.5. 

 

In the last 2 years I switched to Bee soil and have lost a lot of shrimps from stuff leeching out of the soil over time. I have now decided to go back to the basics of using inert soil.  I set up my new tank with clay substrate and let it cycle normally with just seeded sponges and plants. It took 3 weeks.  My PH is 6.5 in this tank!   

 

I also keep my Pinto Mischlings in an 8 gallon Fluval Ebi tank with NO substrate, just floating plants, moss and cholla wood/IAL and Oak leaves.  The PH is 7.0 in this tank and I have just been away for 2 weeks with NO one looking after this tank and my shrimps are all alive!  Just goes to show you don't need anything fancy and shrimps can survive for weeks on just leaves.  I put 4 big ones in the tank along with Snowflake food.

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I just read a thread where some on used inert substrate to keep TBs. They said they're using sera super peat to lower the ph. The thread hasn't been updated in awhile but many in the thread said that using sera has worked for them, one of those members being shrimpy daddy. Gonna have to look into this and maybe setup a tank this method once i get more info.

 

The peat filter media is just to lower the pH during the initial setup phase. Once your substrate accumulate enough waste material that broke down into humus substances, then the humus substances will buffer the pH virtually forever (if you are not adding all those minerals rocks/ powder that claims to be dead sea mud or volcanic ash). A properly design RO remineraliser should gives you pH 6.2 to 6.4 but with only a little buffering capability.

 

I think you are referring to this thread? http://tlc.shrimpydaddy.com/discussion/12/fans-eco-complete-inert-substrate-trial

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The peat filter media is just to lower the pH during the initial setup phase. Once your substrate accumulate enough waste material that broke down into humus substances, then the humus substances will buffer the pH virtually forever (if you are not adding all those minerals rocks/ powder that claims to be dead sea mud or volcanic ash). A properly design RO remineraliser should gives you pH 6.2 to 6.4 but with only a little buffering capability.

 

I think you are referring to this thread? http://tlc.shrimpydaddy.com/discussion/12/fans-eco-complete-inert-substrate-trial

No wonder my first guppy tank, after about 2 months, the pH was around 6 but my tap water is 7.6 pH and no one could give me an answer.

How stable is the pH from these humus substances?

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How stable is the pH from these humus substances?

 

It depending on on the thickness of the substrate, the size of your filter and how much humus has been accumulated.

 

For my > 6 months old 120 litre cube tank that has 8cm substrate, I flushed the water 5 times over 2 weeks before the pH stops buffering.

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