Caridinas adapted to High pH? Taboo water params

[ShrimpP]

I've heard shrimp breeders in Germany adapt/breed their shrimp in high pH (7+, even into the 8's! from what I've heard). Talking about the softer acidic water Cards (CRS, BB, KK, etc,).

Have even heard of people raising shrimp in higher/"non-ideal" GH, KH, TDS, temperature just to make them more tolerant/compatible with wider range (or higher end) water parameters (even tap water, no remin R/O nor active/acidic substrate/source).

Also heard of people (not Germans specifically) purposely having dirty or overpopulated tanks so the shrimp strains become more hardy/less sensitive/delicate.

Me personally, all of those strived for features/attributes (tolerate wider/high water params, less delicate) are qualities I would prefer.

Anyone personally keep strains that in these "taboo" water conditions?

Interested in hearing thoughts/experience. I may even be interested in obtaining some of these hardy strains.

Any links to these German breeders that breed shrimp in these conditions? (I've only heard word of mouth, haven't seen the actual sources)

[Wygglz]

Rostick is a member and I believe he keeps crystals in tap water successfully.

[DETAquarium]

Not sure if this is really out of the realm of "taboo" but I have kept Taiwan bees in 170 TDS or so with no problems.

[PlantDude]

I have my blue bolts and taitibee's in 190+ tds water. 

[Dluxeshrimps]

I use my City tap water in some tanks, and believe it or not my Card's/Neo's are breeding successfully on a high 7.8-8.5 pH.

 

using RO water the breeding rate for me is not as quick as tap

[ShrimpP]

Nice Dluxe! What Cards in particular? How many generations been living in those conditions?

 

The TDS reportings though, according to this site (I understand it is just one site and a wide general range though), the mentioned TDS levels don't seem all too extreme. But "progress" is progress  (depending who you ask. I personally think of this making the species/strain overall a hardier, more adaptable shrimp. Shorter lifespans may be seen in early generations, but eventually they should adapt, at least being hardier than over inbreed strains)

http://www.discobee.com/blogs/news/17030569-shrimp-water-parameters

[Dluxeshrimps]

right now I have

PRL CRS

S-SSS CRS

BKK

BB

RBOET

 

 

[Soothing Shrimp]

What are your tap params Dluxe?

[fernselvis]

I just checked my office tank 1 st time in 3 years and ph 7.2 and tds 250 an have bred crs and cbs successfully without anything special stuff just aged water and 40 percent changes 1 once a month and normal food. Couldn't do the same at home. I'm not trying to high jack you thread, I think over the generations they adapted.

Elvis

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[fernselvis]

Elvis

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[Dluxeshrimps]

• pH 7.5 - 8.0
• TDS 200 - 300

From what I can remember as of right now.

[Soothing Shrimp]

Deluxe, Are these the ones you imported?

[Dluxeshrimps]

I got them from a Taiwan dealer during the Chicago Aquatic Expo. Have you been to Fish Planet up North? I was refer to him from the owner of that shop.

[Soothing Shrimp]

Never been to fish planet.

[Dluxeshrimps]

Its up in Deerfield. Great shop. Super Clean. 

and they are always willing to help out a fellow hobbyist.

 

It a bit far  takes me about hour or so and if highway is packed forget about it.

[Jynn]

I have a prolific tank of CRS that are around 7ph, 350 TDS

 

There are some rocks in the tank that seem to screw with the params (pagoda stone), but I didn't know it when I set it up.  They are doing great in there after a couple generations.    I've had to sell some off to avoid overpopulation.

 

 

And.. my very first foray into caridinas a long time ago before id done the proper research

 

I bought 5 CRS from a LFS, and was just keeping them in tap water.   I went from 5 to 50 or so in a couple months,  but that whole tank eventually crashed

[mayphly]

My low grade crs (from Germany) are breeding in these parameters.

 

ph 7.4

tds 195-200

kh 2

gh 7

[Vpier]

What it really comes down to is being consistent when dealing with animal husbandry.

[oem]

Since these shrimp have a limited life span, it should be fairly easy to adapt the next several generations to different water conditions.  There will be some losses as they will limited by their physiology and will not survive in some parameters. Rob at Flip Aquatics is trying to do this to open up the hobby to more people with less fussing.  I'm not sure about keeping the beautiful coloration when these changes have been made though.

[Jadenlea]

Quote

 

 

ShrimpyDaddy told me that where he is, (I forget where that is!)  they just use inert substrate for their crystals and TBs.  He feels keeping the parameters stable is more important and has even hinted that the whole below 6 ph is to much.   He urged me not to go with controsoil.   I didnt listen but it didnt matter.  My controsoil didnt work anyway. 

[ShrimpP]

Yeah, I came across some of shrimpydaddy's posts/blogs. I think they used inert substrates or high CEC, but they also used peat chips (Sera or Fluval, not peat moss) to lower the pH. I still think his method is just an alternative to not using active substrates like Aquasoil, but he keeps the params in the same range water param range though if I am not mistaken (does take more measuring and work/dosing this way though). He's not exactly keeping them in pH 7 or higher.

 

Though my experience is pretty much nill with acidic shrimp as of right now, having researched into Ocean Acidification (pretty much low pH/more H+ ions takes away from inverts being able to get calcium carbonates from the water), so from a scientific basis, too low pH (I wouldn't go below 6, 6.5 might be what I would feel better with, but as I've expressed, I would like to get Caridinas even more adaptable) doesn't sound good, even if they are considered Caridina params.

[Jadenlea]

True, he doesn't keep them at 7, but he also doesn't try to get it down into the 5s as some of our breeders do.  No judgement made for either.. just saying, it does seem they could be adapted.  

 

I am keeping my TBs in a tank with Sera Peat right now since the Controsoil didnt buffer.   It seems to me it is easier to change some peat in a filter rather then uproot an entire tank of buffered soil but  I am a beginner with TB so its all trial and error and watching the experts for me. 

 

If you have room for a second tank, how about keeping them at about 6.5  and moving babies to a 7ph tank since babies adjust better.   I know I would be watching with interest. 

 

[nicpapa]

Ι accidentally move a baby crs in my topaz tank with moss.

i saw it now after 2-3 weeks .

The baby growing , and growing fast  at kh3 kh 8-9 ph 7.6 .

[seaj]

These posts are making me want to give bee shrimp a try now. I'm gonna try out some tank cooling methods this summer. It's spring here and my unheated tanks are in the 76-78 range. Ark on Aquabid lists these parameters for his shrimp.

 

Quote

My water parameters are: TDS 170-200 ppm, GH 7, pH 7.2-7.4, nitrite - 0, nitrate - 0, temperature 72-76

 

[Alzzy]